Where is this world heading to?

[geosub1978]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Maybe this thread should have been titled "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here".

Look, Guys, once it was clear that Silent Hunter 4 was given a totally unrealistic production schedule, we subsimmers had two choices:

Choice 1: Purchase the game and support the one company producing subsims, in the hope that it will continue to do so, and in the knowledge that the project would not be finished at the time of release and would require serious patching.

Choice2: Don't buy SH4 because it's too buggy and because you wish to punish Ubisoft, and possibly let the Silent Hunter seies die right there.

Whatever you think about Ubisoft, if Silent Hunter 4 does not meet its projected sales revenue then Ubisoft will probably drop the series. Does anyone really think that another company will then rush in to produce a new subsim from scratch (at least two years work, more like three) with the probability being that they will make only a marginal profit, if that?

We need to support our team of Devs, and we need to hope that Ubisoft, for all their quirks, continue to support the Silent Hunter franchise.

All these are so obvious!!! . I hope there will be no need to discuss it anymore!

[Hitman]

Everybody complains about what a crappy game Silent Hunter 4 is and that SH4 is just a big collection of bugs and how they want back the $50 spent on the game. Nobody just enjoys the game.

No. I can count easily the small number of guys in this or the UBI forum ranting and complaining. Versus several thousands of copies sold, even AFTER much ranting and complaining by those few. The fact that ranters, moaners and inmatures yell louder and seek more attention due to their childish behaviour can't and shall not obscure a quieter majority of supporters of the SH series. When I bought SH1 many years ago (1996) I got a game that had some bugs and was stick to 256x time compression . But it was the finest and loveliest experience of my life. The game was good, but I would not even have noticed some bugs (F.e. escorts coming back to catch you if using time compression during an attack), had I not -years later- read about them in the internet. May of the moaners and yellers complaint about bugs they have not even noticed themselves. Sometimes moaning goes even down to using illegal software.

I'm starting to be really fed up of a minority of inmatures ruining these forums. Because the worse part is that what used to be a well-renowned community, is starting to be wrongly identified with a minority of newcomers that seek confrontation and destructive discussions. I must repeat it once more before ending this post: The fact that some do yell louder does not mean that they are right or they are representative of the subsim.com community. In fact, they are quite the opposite (The forum archives are available to check that).

[joea]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

Choice 1: Purchase the game and support the one company producing subsims, in the hope that it will continue to do so, and in the knowledge that the project would not be finished at the time of release and would require serious patching.

Which is what I did though I can't play the game on my old system (installed it today...don't ask back into the box for my new box).

Ach well we'll see what will happen, all the whiners will throw up their hands in the air and whine some more but never blame themselves. ZaPPPa if I wrote what I thought about your post, I'd get banned.

[geosub1978]

Although I am brand new in these foruns I play subsims since 1991. The incomming prospects every year kept my intrest for 15years now and since Ubisoft has taken the lead of this project I think we have to support Ubi if we whant to maintain any prospects of subsims in the future, called SH4,5,6 or 7! .

After all playing a subsim, to my point of view, is not just a time filling procedure or endertainment. It is more or less a need and we always seek for something better and more interesting. The fact that Ubisoft has been devoted to that has to be appreciated desregarding the 40euros that we spent on SH3 and SH4.

Gentlmen let us enjoy the wonderfull subsims that we have and maintain our hopes for future developmnet! If there was no Ubi there would be no SH3 and SH4 and who knows...SH5!

Afterall, if someone thinks that something is really not good, he can suggest an amendment and the mostly capable moders of this forum will respond to that for sure, if not Ubisoft inclouding that in a patch!!!

[Wilcke]

OK, I am way to dense, thanks for the post! I sense your frustration with the process and also with the feedback from the user base. Is it "unrealistic expectations".....probably but it is all understandable.

Yes, the post is not a whine just venting frustration, thanks for that, we will still enjoy the wonderful aspects of SH4 and hope for patches to repair or add the missing bits. I urge all to support your favorite sim, buy copies give them away. Its the only way to keep these Dev Team alive and well fed!

Take care man, and thanks for the understanding, apologies for my misunderstanding your post!

Cheers!

Wilcke

[donut]

TDK1044 Sir,
You said it true. I am happy that UBI got my support,both as a Beta tester,& my
$50.00 fee. Damn I do miss SHI Radar though. Is missing torp track,& offset angle lines a bug,or feature ? Thought I read,it had something to do with the date line,
say what ?

[Subsim Monitor]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Well... I guess that's it.

I have now heard it all on Subsim.com.

JCC

He doesn't know how it works, obviously. If SH4 does not sell well, there will be no SH5, guaranteed. Ubisoft will not look at the poor sales and draw the conclusion "We better make sure SH5 does is less buggy".

Putting together a bug-free computer game is not a slam dunk. Sometimes the game developement cycle uses all the time available and resources the budgeted, it has to go out the door. No company is going to keep it in development past the point where they can make money.

Making a computer game is similar to a sports team playing a game. They sometimes win, sometimes by a lot, but there are also times they just don't get it done.

[Fearless]

I will always support a sim game that I like irrespective of the faults it may have.

They are fixable.

I'm yet to come accross a pc game that isn't buggy in some ways. And as for being a beta tester.... that we all are for any pc game that's released on the market. How else can games be fixed. There are a lot of pcs out there around the world that have different specs and I'm yet to see a computer operate the same with exactly the same specs

If you enjoy the Silent Hunter series as I do then instead of attacking the Devs perhaps supporting them would help a lot more to get a product closer to being fixed.

[Nightmare]

Originally Posted by John Channing

Anyone choosing to debate with the OP you might just want to have a look at his resume.

JCC

And it doesn't take a lot of research on the web to figure out which project he's recently worked on.

[sunvalleyslim]

Well Guys,

Just give this forum a little bit more time, and we'll be rid of the Whiners. Those that don't like the game will be long gone and off to some other forum whining about something else.
Having been on a WWII Diesel Boat and knowing whats its like down under dark and deadly waters, gives a man a far better understanding of sub life. As stated earlier, try living on a sub at 1X TC.
Imagine my joy when they released Sub Sims, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. My only hope is that this type of sim can last forever.
I have utmost respect for those that wish to feel what its like aboard a sub. For those of you that will never get that experience this is truly the closest you will come.
And I know that there are many of you that absolutely love the feeling. Those of us will still be here, and will play through the bad times as well as the good.
In the real world you can't tell the Builder of your Boat you don't like it. You learn to work through the bugs and come to "Love Your Boat".........Happy hunting

[TDK1044]

These Devs really deserve our support. They are totally dedicated to producing the best possible sub sim for the end user. If some members here are frustrated with bugs in the game, imagine how the Devs felt on a daily basis, knowing from day one that the project you're working very long days to produce is highly likely to be unfinished when it goes 'gold', and all you can do is hope that you'll be allowed to heavily patch it after release.

This sim has the Devs' name on it, Guys, and if they are allowed to produce two more patches for it then the game will be where it would have been had it been given a feasible production schedule in the first place.

As for the very small number of members who wish to post nonsense encouraging people not to purchase the game so that sales will drop and Ubisoft will therefore be taught a lesson, I'm sure there are other Forums better suited to your talents. I hear 'Toys R Us' are looking for Beta Testers.

Here, we respect the Silent Hunter 4 Devs, and we thank Ubisoft for continuing with the Silent Hunter series, even though we may disagree with them on some major issues and we certainly make them aware of that fact.

In the end "He who has the money calls the tune". That would be Ubisoft.

[Snowman999]

Does anyone really think that another company will then rush in to produce a new subsim from scratch (at least two years work, more like three) with the probability being that they will make only a marginal profit, if that?

I for one DO think some other group would continue to produce sub sims. There is a world-wide audience of something like 300,000 proven fans of this franchise, and I think most would at least sample a new attempt.

But, I DON'T think it would:

1. Cost $50US. Probably more like $80-100.
2. Be distributed in big-box retail. Download only, DVD by mail if interested--the Matrix model.
3. Have printed manuals.
4. Focus on graphics (fine by me.)

The $50 price max is a creature/artifact of brick&mortar retail. True niche games (SH4, as I've said before, is not a niche game) attract a different customer, one less price sensitive if the product delivers immersion and historic truth. Look at "War in the Pacific"'s fan base on the Matrix forum site. And this for an $80 hex-based grognard wargame.

If the SIlent Hunter series continues down the path illustrated by the evolution betwen SH3 and SH4 I won't be interested in an SH5 in any event. I would have been fine with SH3 graphics in exchange for an experience that somewhat resembles the US Navy in 1941-45. Instead I got Lancaster bombers at Midway, garage mechanic uniforms, USMC belt buckles, etc.

If someone else wants to step up and produce an historic SIM at $80-100 I'll take a look. Pro-rated across the hours I'd spend it's pennies per.

[Snowman999]

In the end "He who has the money calls the tune". That would be Ubisoft.

Well, no, that would be us.

[ZaPPPa]

Originally Posted by joea

Ach well we'll see what will happen, all the whiners will throw up their hands in the air and whine some more but never blame themselves. ZaPPPa if I wrote what I thought about your post, I'd get banned.

Funny how a dev bashing a whole community of gamers, a genre of games and a game company in particular is perfectly fine, but how saying anything bad about SH4 and UBI is not. Take a good long look at post #1 and tell me that wasn't a whine. The double standards in this forum are troubling.

I do support the SH and I bought a copy. Two copies actually because UBI's download site didn't work and they lost my order (not without taking my money though). However, I am not going to play nice and make UBI think I'm fine with their business practices. There's more than enough sheep in this world who will roll over and take everything the powerful companies throw at them.

By the way, You're more than welcome to PM me if you need to get your disgust with me off your chest.

[John Channing]

I have read the first post over and over and over again and it is not whinning... it is a statement of fact.

He is also one of the development team that brought this simulation out and, as such, on this site he will be treated with respect.

Now if you want to say there is a double standard about that, tough. There are a lot of other sites that I am sure would appreciate your patronage.

JCC