Smoking is good for you

[LoBlo]

Originally Posted by waste gate

That is a bit over the top as analogies go. Arsenic has been a known poison for centuries. How about driving an automobile. In the US, that activity kills more than 41,000 people every year. Yet, no one questions it unless the whole global warming issue is raised. Even then how many are willing to give up their freedom to make the choice, drive or not drive?

No, my analogy was appropriate. Anyone that doesn't know the health effects of cigarettes and tobacco by now has either been living under a rock or is a moron... or both. Its been known for decades that these are health detriments. And unlike driving (which has lifestyle benefits, advances person and society opprotunities, and gives personal and societal benefits), smoking is just dumb. Behold the moron's of our culture.

Originally Posted by waste gate

Ultimately smokers die at a younger age than non-smokers and eat up less of the money. Non-smokers are more of a burden than smokers.

Baloney. Sure smokers die younger, but instead of just croaking, these guys will ultimately drag their diseased selves to a doctor asking for him to help him with expensive procedures and whatnot instead of just croaking quietly.

"Doctor my heart hurts. Please fix me. BooHooHoo." (coronary disease)
"Doctor my arm is numb. Please fix me. BooHooHoo." (strokes)
"Doctor my legs burn. Please fix me. BooHooHoo" (peripheal vascular disease)
"Doctor, everything keeps going dark. Please fix me. BooHooHoo." (Carotid artery stenosis)
"Doctor there's blood in my stool. Please fix me. BooHooHoo" (colon cancer)
"Doctor I have the worst belly pain. Please fix me. BooHooHoo" (abdominal aortic aneurysm)
"Doctor there's blood in my urine. Please fix me. BooHooHoo" (transitional cell carcinoma)
"Doctor, I can't breathe. Please fix me. BooHooHoo" (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease)
"Doctor, I'm coughing up blood. Please fix me. BooHooHoo" (lung caner)

Like I said. If you guys would just croak it would be one thing. But instead you'll crawl into some hospital/er/doctor's office begging for expensive interventions, that will be paid for by 1) the government meaning taxpayers or 2) insurance meaning all others that buy into that insurance company. A pathetic drain on society.

[Skweetis]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

I would be all for that, if we could deny smokers access to medical care to keep them from being such a financial burden on others. All the lung cancer chemotherapy, lobectomies, coronary stent placements, coronay artery bypass grafts, acute MIs with or without thrombolytic therapy, cardiac care unit admissions, hemicolectomies, ischemic strokes, carotid endarterectomies, abdominal aortic aneurysm repairs, and transitional cell carcinomas are all pretty costly.

All those health problems are expensive. You guys are a drain on society. Yep, that's right, you heard me...

Thankfully I live in Canada, where the (justifyably) outrageous taxes I pay for cigarettes pays for our "free" health care system. At nearly $10 a pack (ie 25 cigarettes)... yeah, I pay my dues, and feel no guilt. If they banned smoking in Canada, goodbye healthcare, or welcome to GST Redux... 20% anyone?

Both my grandfathers were heavy smokers, lived and smoked well into their eighties, and neither died of smoking related causes. While this is more the exception than the rule, I'm not too worried for myself. Besides, the twilight years are the ones I want to miss anyway.

While I don't deny the dangers of smoking, all I have to say is that the odds of my second hand smoke directly causing the death of a non-smoker is a hell of a lot less than my death being directly related to being killed by a car driven by a non-smoker.

[Skweetis]

Originally Posted by LoBlo

Anyone that doesn't know the health effects of cigarettes and tobacco by now has either been living under a rock or is a moron... or both. Its been known for decades that these are health detriments. And unlike driving (which has lifestyle benefits, advances person and society opprotunities, and gives personal and societal benefits), smoking is just dumb. Behold the moron's of our culture.

Im being a smartass here when I say: how many times have you visited any fast food joint this year, how many litres of booze consumed, ever use that mayo in your fridge that is at or beyond expiry date thinking "its only a suggestion" then wonder why your bum gets a little nervous the next day?

By this logic that the things we partake in that do not advance person and society, and only result in a drain on the medical system, then by default precedent, these also have to go:

Non Medical Alcohols
Fast/Fried Foods
Soft Drinks
Twinkies, Chips and other Junk Foods.
(the above will contribute more to health care drains in the next 20 years than smokers EVER had. Cancer aint curable, and not necessarily treatable in most cases. We die pretty quick, a short term but expensive drain, but diabetes... that **** sticks with you and you can live. Not to mention related kidney and liver issues, both of which in most cases they can keep you going a hell of a lot longer at higher than bargain prices!)

Mountain Biking
Sky Diving
Skate Boarding
(in fact, just about any extreme sport or activity that can result in prolonged medical care that serves no social purpose other than an Adrenaline rush. This does not include professional athletes, as the revenue and subsequent taxes more than adequetly cover their medical costs.)

Aluminum Cookware (I think this is already taken care of though)

I could name more, and I will if necessary, but I think I made my point.

So unless you are growing your own tomatoes with no pesticides, eating the boiled pork you just cut from your own slaughtered sow that has never been exposed to consuming animal by-products, growth hormones, excesive antibiotics, drive a hybrid car (bikes are dangerous, just ask my face, and fossil-fuel internal combustion is only, like, a hundred years outdated), have never sampled your brother -in-laws Secret Christmas Asskicking Eggnog while scarfing down some chinese food and only use stainless steel for cooking...

Don't razz me about a smoke or two

[kiwi_2005]

Words of advice. Any young ppl here just started up smoking, dont! get that packet and throw it away NOW! Not one more then i will, not i'll finish the packet first then stop. Throw it away now. Before the nicotine settles in your brain and you become addicted to smoking.

You wont regret it.

[Skweetis]

Originally Posted by kiwi_2005

Words of advice. Any young ppl here just started up smoking, dont! get that packet and throw it away NOW! Not one more then i will, not i'll finish the packet first then stop. Throw it away now. Before the nicotine settles in your brain and you become addicted to smoking.

You wont regret it.

He's right! Sometimes I forget that all the people here may not be 30+, and I wouldn't want my arguments here misconstrued by a young audiance as an endorsement for smoking. DON'T SMOKE! Save your money and save your breath!

While I make light of the subject, and have fun debating and taking the opposing side. in reality, I am quite aware of my addiction to cigarettes and do fully believe that it is a terrible, filthy habit that will eventually kill me. There is a reason why I don't smoke in my house, because I wouldn't ever consider doing so within a hundred yards of my son. I have attempted to quit multiple times, and always hope that the next attempt will be successful. It's one hell of a monkey to shake.

My arguments here are intended more as debate on hypocrisy rather than endorsement.

Cheers Kiwi for reminding me of the impressionables.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by Skweetis

I have attempted to quit multiple times, and always hope that the next attempt will be successful. It's one hell of a monkey to shake.

Your not alone mate. I know ppl from my past who were heroin users that gave up that sh*t yet still smoke cigs they say heroin was so easy to give up compared to smoking.

They're clean drug free folks but, they still smoke, if that makes sense..

Smoking is the worse addictive drug on the planet and its LEGAL!

Thousands of young ppl start up smoking every day while the govenments just roll in the TAX they get from it. Whos the drug dealer now huh!

farkin madness.

[Penelope_Grey]

Nicotine is actually more addictive than heroin so I heard. I'm thinking of stopping myself, given that a lot of consideration lately.

[Kapitan_Phillips]

For those trying to quit, think of it in a submarine context. Every time you put one in your mouth and light it, you're depleting oxygen. Oxygen you need for your 50+ crew to survive

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Kapitan_Phillips

For those trying to quit, think of it in a submarine context. Every time you put one in your mouth and light it, you're depleting oxygen. Oxygen you need for your 50+ crew to survive

Better still take a walk through a heart and lung ward in a hospital I used to work with a guy who smoked 160 a day. He did it, when he reached the other end of the ward he never smoked again, what he saw scared him.

[Skybird]

Those of you wanting to quit smoking:
don't do it alone. Like there are the Anonymous Alcoholics, there are comparable groups for smokers. A friend whom you give agreement to treat you quite hard if needed (you try to smoke one), also is of help. He needs to will to do anything to get a fight started whenever you try to brake your indention to quit smoking. He must be willing to even slap your face as often as needed to get that fight started. an if it is in public and people are staring - let them stare. They don't mean anything to you.

therapy aiming at insights and making you aware of why it is unreasonable to smoke is useless and a waste of time, they never have made a single smokers stopping to smoke. Only behavioural therapy and behaviour alteration promises chances for success. and that may be a more difficult task and may lead you to more changes in your life than you may imagine in the beginning.

I use to say like it is a common word for alcoholics as well: once you have been an alcoholic, you will remain one for the rest of your life even when you become dry. You are always at risk of going back to it. It is the same with cigarettes. So: avoid places where there is smoking . change your behaviour, and if needed, your social life. Get rid of friends that do not care and do not stop smoking in your presence, or tell you that it is not so dangerous. If they don't do you that favour and don't accept that you try to stay clean, they are no real friends anyway. Always remember, you are a junkie. Once a junkie, forever a junkie. You never will be at peace with that drug. All you will ever get is a cease-fire. Don't accept to run into situations where you may be tempted to smoke a cigarette again. Skip such dates from your calender. Delete such friends from your list, at least as long as you haven' been clean for one year and won a certain amount of stability.

Again: the key word is alteration of behaviour. That's why it is so difficult to stop smoking, it is not so much the physiological dependency. What you need most is "robust" support by others, people who will not shy away but even start a fight with you when they see you trying to pick one up.

That's for the mental, the behavioural, the social side of it. For the physiological side of things, meet a doctor and therapist. If you are an extreme hardcore smoker smoking several packages per day, even a stationary decontamination during an artificial coma of 24-36 hours may be an option. Especially when you are abusing other drugs as well.

Moral of the story: find powerful allies!

[1mPHUNit0]

I don't smoke anithing.
And i don't know it's it's ok or not
to relax peoples
Sure there are more sane relax
I don't drink alcohol
or coffe
But i like Coca Cola, that sane it's not, and i walk
in a City too polluted
Than .....i really don't know

[Penelope_Grey]

Following some heated debate and such forth with Skybird and some other chap who wound me up...

I thought, this weekend, instead of smoking, I wouldn't. Don't ask me why, just felt I had to prove a point. Well..... had a go. Friday came along, normally 2 or 3 menthol cigarettes get smoked then. Nope, didn't touch one. Today, I actually, and this is true, forgot I was meant to be abstaining and I smoked my cigar as per normal, about half way down I realised I shouldn't be doing this.

Which has led me to realise, smoking is a very automatic thing! You just do it without even thinking.

[STEED]

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

smoking is a very automatic thing! You just do it without even thinking.

Just like breathing. Has anyone tried to stop breathing for 10 minutes? I don't think anyone has.

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by 1mPHUNit0

to relax peoples

It´s 19hrs from my last smoke & I am jumping on the walls here. I feel like a angry gorilla with a electrified pole up my ***.

[micky1up]

Originally Posted by STEED

Just like breathing. Has anyone tried to stop breathing for 10 minutes? I don't think anyone has.

its because you have done if for so long and you have no will power