Auto TDC consistently misses (torps arrive late always) - Page 3

Jungman · 03-26-07, 11:21 PM

I read somewhere that it could be the overzealous 'cough' kicking in -maybe.

Reading other forums, it would seem it is more than just the Chanting Numbers and 2D Crew.

Why it would trigger on a legit copy...is unknown. The Devs mention so much.

Plus the bug with the Port side shot crossing bug...who knows for sure.

For now I am looking at what I can make for mods to enhance the game until the next patch.

I believe I seen this behavior, I swear I had a good solution, auto or manual OP.

Does it only accur in Career Mode or all Modes? I think it occurs on Career (Camapign Mode) only.

Oh yes, Congrat to CCIP, he made moderator

StandingCow · 03-26-07, 11:37 PM

Open your tubes first.

Jungman · 03-26-07, 11:50 PM

Indeed they claim the tube doors are open. I believe that only a real n00b would make that mistake!

Possible slow torp data left over from SH3. The speeds of the German and American torp (slow and fast) are close together..being off by that 2-3 knots. Checking into that theory. I seen it before...

Update:

The real values are being used for a Mark 14 anyway 31 and 46 knots (range is off, not abig deal 4100 and 8200 yards). But I see that there is new stuff in the Torpedo_US.sim file. There is a true magnetic influence explosion range (Der Tedy Bar would like this) of 5.5 and a chance to set the dud rate...now if it is a dude, it could maybe vary in ange but definetly there is a listing of Dud Reduction Speed of 34. As if it is deemed a dud, then instead of not only a premature/weak damage explosion, it could just run at a slower rate of 34 instead of 46 knots.

Have you tried using no Dud to see if this fixes the problem?

tommyk · 03-27-07, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColonelCuneo

There is no bug! As with SH3, the auto targeting does not account for the time it takes to open the torpedo door. Try hitting "q" and wait 5 seconds before you fire. If you use external view, you can always take a quick peak to make sure the door is fully opened. As long as the target's speed and heading do not change and as long as your sub isn't turning while firing, you should hit precisely where you aimed, everytime.

Door is open, target is not turning, not changing speed, not evading, nothing...

-> still misses or hit the tail when aiming for 1st masts on short sitance... In SH3 I never have a problem. In SH4 most of the time... I strongly believe its a bug.

Steel_Tomb · 03-27-07, 07:43 AM

you could also just adjust the gyro angle thing on the left panel a bit to lead the target a bit so it hits, thats what I did and they tend to hit where I aim now, I've moved over to the manual TDC now though its much more enjoyable than "point and shoot".

tommyk · 03-27-07, 08:54 AM

> I've moved over to the manual TDC now though its much more enjoyable than "point and shoot".

I wish I could but I am not there yet. I need/want simple mode for now...

nofxx · 03-27-07, 09:19 AM

I can confirm this.... this left to right thing...

At first I tought i was using the stadimenter wrong..... like ... in my head torps later = ship distance > then you computed...
So i aim the "waterline" a bit down....really close to the flag (hightest point, right?)... thus incresing the distance... and the torp did i lil better.... there are some shots of how to aim the stadimeter? i dont know if I 'm doing it right.....

macky · 03-27-07, 09:36 AM

dunno if this helps from a nub, but as a nub I am on easy and 0 realistic mode whilst I get used to the boat. Finding a lot out that way too.

OT, I can confirm I have no problem whatsoever in hitting any ship. One shotted a destroyer which hit dead centre in the Tokyo harbour, all right the destroyer was going slow, but it was moving in a left to right direction.

I obviously have no dud torpedos, could that be the issue?

AVGWarhawk · 03-27-07, 09:42 AM

It works fine for me. I'm continously updating the information to the TDC. I make minor adjustments as I close. Speed is the biggest input and the most correct you will need. I just wish all torp doors could be opened. This part just seems silly. As I close I'm pressing the Q key and pressing the torpedo to use and searching for the firing button. What is the this? The multi-tasking thing at it's best

. The torp doors need some work

akdavis · 03-27-07, 10:02 AM

I guess it would be very helpful if those who are not having any issues could post a video of the training mission in which they input correct speed, AOB and range on the Mogami and get center of mass hits without compensating with the torpedo spread. If it works fine because you are inputing incorrect values (such as overestimating speed) into the TDC and computing a TDC solution that leads the target (with map contact updates on, the ship and the TDC solution marker will not overlap and keep pace with eachother), then it is still a bug.

Please note, all mystery is removed using map contact updates. You cannot ascribe this behavior to duds, erratic torpedos, etc, as all behavior of target, TDC and torpedoes can be observed on the attack map.

tommyk · 03-27-07, 10:04 AM

> It works fine for me. I'm continously updating the information to the TDC.

AVG, threat is about Auto TDC...

akdavis · 03-27-07, 12:14 PM

FYI, here is a pic using auto TDC:

As you can see, the TDC (white x with AOB line) has a perfect track on the center of the ship, yet the torpedo hits the stern. This can be repeated over and over with no variation in the torpedo's behavior.

Furthermore, behavior in manual TDC is identical (if you can work the TDC long enough to get close to such a perfect track). Torpedo will fall behind in the exact same manner as with auto TDC. TDC speed, AOB and range track are fine in auto and manual (although stadimeter range measuring in manual seems wonky and must be compensated for using map updates). The torpedo follows the gyro angle computed at the moment of firing properly. The calculated gyro angle is wrong (at least with targets moving L to R). Here is a pic of the same situation with manual TDC (note that due to the resoluation of the stadimeter control, exact range will not be obtained and track will be either slightly to the fore or to the back of the target, however at this range it has no significant impact on torpedo track (will hit within meters of the same point regardless if range is a bit short or long):

As you can see, all four torps are on track to hit at nearly the same spot on the stern. All four had tubes opened before each shot. All four had a bearing/range update just before launch.

As has already been noted, this only seems to affect Mk. 14s at the high speed setting. Low speed will strike center of target repeatedly under the exact same conditions. This suggests that the sim is not calculating the correct gyro angle for the high speed setting of the torpedo for some reason. Perhaps it is using a different (higher) speed than the torpedo is actually travelling at?

Penelope_Grey · 03-27-07, 12:17 PM

OMG how do you get that screen up so you can see the torpedo path on the screen, in Sh3 you hit F6 whats it in this?

Thanks!

AVGWarhawk · 03-27-07, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tommyk

> It works fine for me. I'm continously updating the information to the TDC.

AVG, threat is about Auto TDC...

Funny, I do not see that in the original post. I see a captain moving things around and attempting different settings that are not working. Well, ok, in manual mode the TDC works fine for me.

akdavis · 03-27-07, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penelope_Grey

OMG how do you get that screen up so you can see the torpedo path on the screen, in Sh3 you hit F6 whats it in this?

Thanks!

It's the attack map. I don't know the key, but it is under the navigation tab, second order from the left, the arrow with the crosshair. I think you need to have map contact updates on to see all the info displayed above.

03-26-07, 11:37 PM	#32
StandingCow Weps Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 355 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Open your tubes first. __________________

03-26-07, 11:50 PM	#33
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Indeed they claim the tube doors are open. I believe that only a real n00b would make that mistake! Possible slow torp data left over from SH3. The speeds of the German and American torp (slow and fast) are close together..being off by that 2-3 knots. Checking into that theory. I seen it before... Update: The real values are being used for a Mark 14 anyway 31 and 46 knots (range is off, not abig deal 4100 and 8200 yards). But I see that there is new stuff in the Torpedo_US.sim file. There is a true magnetic influence explosion range (Der Tedy Bar would like this) of 5.5 and a chance to set the dud rate...now if it is a dude, it could maybe vary in ange but definetly there is a listing of Dud Reduction Speed of 34. As if it is deemed a dud, then instead of not only a premature/weak damage explosion, it could just run at a slower rate of 34 instead of 46 knots. Have you tried using no Dud to see if this fixes the problem? Last edited by Jungman; 03-27-07 at 01:19 AM.

03-27-07, 08:54 AM	#36
tommyk Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Near U-995 (Kiel, Germany) Posts: 337 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	> I've moved over to the manual TDC now though its much more enjoyable than "point and shoot". I wish I could but I am not there yet. I need/want simple mode for now... __________________ Gute Jagd und fette Beute!

03-27-07, 09:42 AM	#39
AVGWarhawk Lucky Jack Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a 1954 Buick. Posts: 28,282 Downloads: 90 Uploads: 0	It works fine for me. I'm continously updating the information to the TDC. I make minor adjustments as I close. Speed is the biggest input and the most correct you will need. I just wish all torp doors could be opened. This part just seems silly. As I close I'm pressing the Q key and pressing the torpedo to use and searching for the firing button. What is the this? The multi-tasking thing at it's best . The torp doors need some work __________________ “You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.” ― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road

03-27-07, 10:02 AM	#40
akdavis Samurai Navy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 597 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I guess it would be very helpful if those who are not having any issues could post a video of the training mission in which they input correct speed, AOB and range on the Mogami and get center of mass hits without compensating with the torpedo spread. If it works fine because you are inputing incorrect values (such as overestimating speed) into the TDC and computing a TDC solution that leads the target (with map contact updates on, the ship and the TDC solution marker will not overlap and keep pace with eachother), then it is still a bug. Please note, all mystery is removed using map contact updates. You cannot ascribe this behavior to duds, erratic torpedos, etc, as all behavior of target, TDC and torpedoes can be observed on the attack map. __________________ -AKD

03-26-07, 11:21 PM	#31
Jungman Samurai Navy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Iowa, USA Posts: 596 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I read somewhere that it could be the overzealous 'cough' kicking in -maybe. Reading other forums, it would seem it is more than just the Chanting Numbers and 2D Crew. Why it would trigger on a legit copy...is unknown. The Devs mention so much. Plus the bug with the Port side shot crossing bug...who knows for sure. For now I am looking at what I can make for mods to enhance the game until the next patch. I believe I seen this behavior, I swear I had a good solution, auto or manual OP. Does it only accur in Career Mode or all Modes? I think it occurs on Career (Camapign Mode) only. Oh yes, Congrat to CCIP, he made moderator

03-27-07, 07:43 AM	#35
Steel_Tomb Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cambridgeshire - UK Posts: 1,128 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	you could also just adjust the gyro angle thing on the left panel a bit to lead the target a bit so it hits, thats what I did and they tend to hit where I aim now, I've moved over to the manual TDC now though its much more enjoyable than "point and shoot".

03-27-07, 09:19 AM	#37
nofxx Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I can confirm this.... this left to right thing... At first I tought i was using the stadimenter wrong..... like ... in my head torps later = ship distance > then you computed... So i aim the "waterline" a bit down....really close to the flag (hightest point, right?)... thus incresing the distance... and the torp did i lil better.... there are some shots of how to aim the stadimeter? i dont know if I 'm doing it right.....

03-27-07, 09:36 AM	#38
macky Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dallas Texas Posts: 129 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	dunno if this helps from a nub, but as a nub I am on easy and 0 realistic mode whilst I get used to the boat. Finding a lot out that way too. OT, I can confirm I have no problem whatsoever in hitting any ship. One shotted a destroyer which hit dead centre in the Tokyo harbour, all right the destroyer was going slow, but it was moving in a left to right direction. I obviously have no dud torpedos, could that be the issue?

03-27-07, 10:04 AM	#41
tommyk Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Near U-995 (Kiel, Germany) Posts: 337 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	> It works fine for me. I'm continously updating the information to the TDC. AVG, threat is about Auto TDC... __________________ Gute Jagd und fette Beute!

03-27-07, 12:14 PM	#42
akdavis Samurai Navy Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 597 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	FYI, here is a pic using auto TDC: As you can see, the TDC (white x with AOB line) has a perfect track on the center of the ship, yet the torpedo hits the stern. This can be repeated over and over with no variation in the torpedo's behavior. Furthermore, behavior in manual TDC is identical (if you can work the TDC long enough to get close to such a perfect track). Torpedo will fall behind in the exact same manner as with auto TDC. TDC speed, AOB and range track are fine in auto and manual (although stadimeter range measuring in manual seems wonky and must be compensated for using map updates). The torpedo follows the gyro angle computed at the moment of firing properly. The calculated gyro angle is wrong (at least with targets moving L to R). Here is a pic of the same situation with manual TDC (note that due to the resoluation of the stadimeter control, exact range will not be obtained and track will be either slightly to the fore or to the back of the target, however at this range it has no significant impact on torpedo track (will hit within meters of the same point regardless if range is a bit short or long): As you can see, all four torps are on track to hit at nearly the same spot on the stern. All four had tubes opened before each shot. All four had a bearing/range update just before launch. As has already been noted, this only seems to affect Mk. 14s at the high speed setting. Low speed will strike center of target repeatedly under the exact same conditions. This suggests that the sim is not calculating the correct gyro angle for the high speed setting of the torpedo for some reason. Perhaps it is using a different (higher) speed than the torpedo is actually travelling at? __________________ -AKD Last edited by akdavis; 03-27-07 at 12:36 PM.

03-27-07, 12:17 PM	#43
Penelope_Grey Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Posts: 1,893 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	OMG how do you get that screen up so you can see the torpedo path on the screen, in Sh3 you hit F6 whats it in this? Thanks! __________________ I SURVIVED THE FIRST EVER SUBSIM WEREWOLF HUNT - and... I actually won the game for the humans too!