Convoy escorts...Be more agressive

[scg737]

Been playing SH4 ~22 hrs and just had a comment...

May 1942...I was patroling in the Java Sea in the USS Shark(horribly shallow) and ran across a convoy in box formation...2 large tankers leading the "box" and 3 destroyers on escort duty. The destroyers were arranged ahead, port, & starboard of the box at ~1500 yd seperation each.

To make a long story short, one taker took 3 torps to starboard and the other tanker, 2. Neither one was sinking and I was out of torps.

Escort problem 1: All the time I was pumping torps into these tankers, all the escorts did was shine their spotlights across the water in my direction.

Aggrivated, and wanting to test the SH4 AI somewhat, I decided to surface in between the 2 tankers and open up with the deck gun. Not being entirely reckless, I knew that each tanker would shield the sub from the destroyers to port & starboard...but the one ahead of the convoy would have a clear shot at me.

Once I hit the surface and fired the 1st shot, shotlights and starshells exploded all around. 7 shots later the first tanker was down and not a single shot had been fired at my sub. The destroyer forward, had come around and was making flank speed at me...range ~1,200 yds. I fired 9 shells into the 2nd tanker and she exploded. About this time the destroyer had closed to ~800 yards and it's first shot landed hopelessly beyond the sub. I ordered flank speed, full right rudder, and crashed dive to 120ft. Once on the bottom, I went to silent running and crept away from the clueless destroyers.

Escort Problem 2: I don't want to jump on the "Well SHIII w/ GWX did it this way and SH4 sucks...." bandwagon, becuase I like SH4 alot. That being said, if I had tried to do the antics above in real life or in SHIII I'm 95% certain I would be dead, dead, dead, dead...

Anyone else notice these passive escorts?

[Drifter9]

Yeah, I had a similar issue with the lethargic convoy escorts as well. I was in the Java Sea on my third patrol in an S-boat. I had four torpedos’ left and I had gotten into a good position ahead of a convoy. I made sure I found a spot deep enough to hide from the escort. I came up to periscope depth and decided to target two small ships and one large one with my four remaining fish. I wanted to make sure I got at least one or two more kills before going back to port. The first target, a small old tanker exploded and split in half seconds before the other small merchant was hit. The second ship listed badly to the port but you could tell it wasn’t going to sink. The third ship, a large euro merchant took both fish with a bad list to port as well. The sea was annoyingly calm so it wasn’t like Mother Nature would help me sink these two boats.
I did about the same thing you did; I went back deep, waited for the convoy to sail off a bit and then surfaced between the ships. I started punching holes in the larger ships water line and how cool is that! I love seeing the holes in the hull, Its one of my favorite features in the game. I took out the large merchant and had already begun firing on the other small ship before the first volley from one of the three Fubuki class DD’s zipped over my head. I increased speed to flank, started changing my course, and began firing AP at him. I killed him before he could ram or shoot me. I was astonished and since the second boat had just started engaging me I began firing on it too. I also sung that boat without taking too much damage but the 3rd DD damaged me so badly I couldn’t submerge. I went on and finished off all but one of the convoys ships before I ran out of ammo and limped home to Australia. The Fubukis are fast. The manual says 38 knots. There is no way I should have had that much time. Also, can someone tell me if my 5’’ deck gun destroy the destroyers turrets? With my first few shots I was able to set fire to the first two destroyers turrets. They didn’t explode off the ship like the small guns on merchants do when you hit them but I didn’t seem to receive as much fire from them after I hit their turrets.
I am playing on the basic medium level that’s the default. I’d figure if I put it on a harder setting the enemy cannon fire would have been far deadlier. I hope??
This is a great game. I love the detail. I played SH3 but I like this game better. I didn't give SH3 much of a chance because I hated playing as the Nazi's. I was really hoping SH4 would have some British or Japanese missions too. Oh well.... maybe in SH5.

[Kongo Otto]

Originally Posted by Drifter9

I didn't give SH3 much of a chance because I hated playing as the Nazi's.

Yeah everybody in the Kriegsmarine was a Nazi.
Who told you this?
Films like U-571?

[tater]

Originally Posted by Kongo Otto

Yeah everybody in the Kriegsmarine was a Nazi.
Who told you this?
Films like U-571?

No, he should believe the standard German movie formula like das boot. Demonstrate again and again that the protagonists hated the regime and were just doing their jobs... you know, like 99% of the French were in the resistance
Bottom line is that while there may be stereotypes in US movies, there are equal stereotypes in German movies.

I didn't buy SH3 for the same reason, I had no desire to roleplay a nazi sub. <--note I didn't say the crew were all nazis, but the sub belonged to, and did the bidding of them. Had zero appeal to me (I have Il-2, and many other ww2 flight sims, and I've never flown a german plane in those, either (actually, not quite true, I have flown finnish 109s)).

I certainly would have bought SH3 had there been even a single class of DD or DE to play on convoy escort duty.

[NefariousKoel]

I posted an updated Kakemann's Improved Escorts mod in the Mod forum.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113232

His sonar mod definitely helped my lazy escorts go after me. He sent me the rest of his crew experience mods for the escorts so I made an updated JSGME ready file for it.

Good Hunting!

[oritpro]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

I posted an updated Kakemann's Improved Escorts mod in the Mod forum.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=113232

His sonar mod definitely helped my lazy escorts go after me. He sent me the rest of his crew experience mods for the escorts so I made an updated JSGME ready file for it.

Good Hunting!

Yep, that mod definitely does the trick.

[Ducimus]

:hmm: S'cuse me while i scamper off to go make a bag of popcorn to enjoy the show. This thread is about to get very entertaining. :rotfl:

[tater]

Yeah, I almost didn't reply. But the notion that there is any less bias or agenda in one set of movies, etc than another is pretty silly.

As is the notion that only a vanishingly small handful of people should be held to a standard of personal resonsibility. The lesson to be learned from history is not that a tiny fraction of people did evil, but that a large fraction of people did nothing at all to stop it.

Feel free to flame away, I won't be changing my mind on that one

[Skorn]

Just finished my third patrol, and I've only been depth charged once. Usually they just look around with their searchlights and then move on. I wouldn't mind a little more danger...

[Drifter9]

I've noticed that the slow moving convoy/task force groups are usually the easy targets. You would think that a slow moving DD would be better set to detect a sub than a fast moving one but so far it doesn't seem to be the case(for me with one weekend worth of play). I sunk a heavy cruiser & a light cruiser at the head of a slow moving convoy without a trouble. However, I tried attacking a very similar group moving at a fast speed and the destroyers when crazy. I think the groups that move at one knot have some sort of bug.

[gord96]

same thing here. was on a patrol in the South China Seas last night when I attacked a convoy with 3 destoyers escorts. I pumped torpedo after torpedo into the tankers and all the destoyers did was shine their lights around. Even in SH3 vanilla the destroyers would go nuts and depth charge the crap out of you if you got near the convoy.

[tater]

Look at the pluss side, in RL the Combined Fleet would never have tasked 3 real DDs to escort anything non-naval. Fleet oilers, yes, merchant tankers, no.

tater

[Trout]

"realistic escorts" should be a difficulty option in this game. Passive escorts will certainly limit how much I play and enjoy the game.

Trout

[bruschi sauro]

Originally Posted by scg737

Been playing SH4 ~22 hrs and just had a comment...

May 1942...I was patroling in the Java Sea in the USS Shark(horribly shallow) and ran across a convoy in box formation...2 large tankers leading the "box" and 3 destroyers on escort duty. The destroyers were arranged ahead, port, & starboard of the box at ~1500 yd seperation each.

To make a long story short, one taker took 3 torps to starboard and the other tanker, 2. Neither one was sinking and I was out of torps.

Escort problem 1: All the time I was pumping torps into these tankers, all the escorts did was shine their spotlights across the water in my direction.

Aggrivated, and wanting to test the SH4 AI somewhat, I decided to surface in between the 2 tankers and open up with the deck gun. Not being entirely reckless, I knew that each tanker would shield the sub from the destroyers to port & starboard...but the one ahead of the convoy would have a clear shot at me.

Once I hit the surface and fired the 1st shot, shotlights and starshells exploded all around. 7 shots later the first tanker was down and not a single shot had been fired at my sub. The destroyer forward, had come around and was making flank speed at me...range ~1,200 yds. I fired 9 shells into the 2nd tanker and she exploded. About this time the destroyer had closed to ~800 yards and it's first shot landed hopelessly beyond the sub. I ordered flank speed, full right rudder, and crashed dive to 120ft. Once on the bottom, I went to silent running and crept away from the clueless destroyers.

Escort Problem 2: I don't want to jump on the "Well SHIII w/ GWX did it this way and SH4 sucks...." bandwagon, becuase I like SH4 alot. That being said, if I had tried to do the antics above in real life or in SHIII I'm 95% certain I would be dead, dead, dead, dead...

Anyone else notice these passive escorts?

I have attacked a convoy...
I have torpedoed one maru...
I have heavy damaged from deep charge...
I must surfaced in THE MIDDLE OF CONVOY IN DAYLIGHT....
and ... surprise the escort ignore me.....:rotfl:

[FAdmiral]

Originally Posted by bruschi sauro

I have attacked a convoy...
I have torpedoed one maru...
I have heavy damaged from deep charge...
I must surfaced in THE MIDDLE OF CONVOY IN DAYLIGHT....
and ... surprise the escort ignore me.....:rotfl:

OK, deceided to make a mission to test this on my SH4 game.
April 15, 1942-Midnight, no wind & calm sea, clear night.
4 Merchants in box formation with 4 small DD escorts (2 on vet &
2 on compt.) Approached from south at 90 degrees, 5 min, later
DDs opened up and 2 rushed over blasting away. Was hit several times
before crash dived to 200 ft.,under TL with silent running. My damage to
2 bulkheads & batteries was repaired very quick with no dam cont team
engaged. A third DD came over to join the other 2, the last stayed with
convoy. They all DCed the sea numerous times but not on me....
2nd try: Moved my sub into the center of the convoy submerged.
Mission starts, I surface. DDs speed up to get clear shots at me. I start
getting hit as soon as they do. Blasted out of the water in less than 8 minutes.
Conclusion: My SH4 game is working great, what's wrong with yours?

JIM