The Silent Hunter 4 TDC discussion

[gmohr]

Done.

[Rykaird]

I need a favor. Can someone post the settings they are using in the torp school that get them a hit right under the stack - particularly AoB?

I'm using a target speed of 9 knots (as measured). My sub is stationary and I don't move it during the school.

I'm firing at the point the target is bearing 348, which is fairly close (but not perfect) approximation of a zero gyro angle. Torp is set to fast. Bow cap is open.

Stadimeter reported distance at the moment of firing is approximately 1010 yards.

I'm using the AoB at the moment of firing - not trying to predict the AoB at impact, and this gives me an AoB of 70 degrees starboard when I measure it on the nav map.

My torpedo keeps hitting well aft. I know I'm doing something wrong, but I'm simply unable to figure out what it is after dozens of attempts. Should I be inputting data into the TDC based on the moment I fire, or some prediction of where everything will be at the moment of impact?

I can hit the ship dead center but only by artificially setting the target speed faster than the 9 knots I am actually measuring it at.

Thanks for your help here. I'm so used to the "Fast 90" method I'm really struggling.

[ryuzu]

Originally Posted by heartc

Well, I already thought that this is what you described in your initial response. However, if that is all there is, it is a highly inadequate and gross method of displaying relative target bearing to check for solution errors, especially on a tiny PC monitor. From your image scan and SHI, I got the impression that iRL they indeed had an additional numerical bearing readout. Did anyone check the manual yet and is seeing what I'm seeing there?

If you look a bit more closely at the manual, what you read as

"Target 10 001"

Is actually

"Target ID 001"



Sorry, no bearing readout to be unlocked there...

r.

[RedHammer]

I dont know what u guys are talking about here (I have a small clue.) But if the devs listen to u and fix this bug, then in a few weeks/months when I become a experienced user of TDC and understand the problem more, then I will probably thank you again.

Thanks

S!

SK

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by gmohr

Confirmed!! Elan, you're brilliant!

As an additional piece of info, I setup a saved game so I could repeatedly test this, I moved my ship so that the target was at about 30 (starboard side), with the target passing right to left across my bow, and setup a solution, and sure enough the Position Tracker button didn't maul my bearing indicator...

So then I tracked the target and watched as the generated bearing contunued to move toward zero as the targed crossed my bow. All was well until it hit zero degrees generated bearing... then the inner dial locked!

So to put a finer point on it, the inner dial is not capable of showing a bearing less than zero degrees....

Neil, if you have some channel to the developers, could you please pass this info on to them? This is a really *REALLY* subtle problem that they may not be aware of, yet is extremely important to us manual monkies, as I'm sure you'd agree.

Yes, I will. This is the kind of feature that the devs take seriously. They know they TDC and setting up firing solutions is the heart of the game. Great catch.

you can see it here, to get a idea of the bug. I have the T3 tanker targeted and Posistion keeper on to track it. Ive deliberatly set the speed to some 19 kts to make the solution wrong so you get a idea of what you can do with it.

the "12 clock PK marker bearing" is the bearing to the target with the data that have been put in to the TDC etc. You can see its on 22 degrees withs is the same as the marker on the map. While the true bearing to the target is in fact some 36 degrees.
Anyway about the bug. When the marker passes 0 degree bearing the wheel over on the position keeper will get stuck and be locked. So you cant read the angle of error from it. It happens when your track something to the starboard side or when something pass from port to starbaord side.

sry for the english and spelling

edit: Neal maybe you could also ask em to add like a little marker/pointer to the outer dial, that way it will be a weee bit easier to spot the bearing. As it is now, it can be a bit tricky to read it off precisly.

[Charos]

Originally Posted by heartc

Well, they almost got it. Almost. They made one small mistake which however has a big negative effect on the usefullness of the position keeper.

Take a look at the lower dial of the position keeper. You will notice it displays and updates the GYRO ANGLES (just like the green line on the attack map) but instead it should be the TARGET BEARING.

Heartc is on the money.

The position keeper requires fixing.

Easy to see - go to the Torpedo training mission with the cruiser.

If you switch to easy settings you can instantly work out the cruiser is at AOB=80.

AOB will not (should not) vary as the cruiser is on a constant course and so is your sub (North).

But take a look at what the AOB indicator and the position keeper (upper dial) its CHANGING AOB.

It looks like this :

Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 320 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 40 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 330 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 50 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 340 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 60 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 350 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 70 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 360 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 80 Degrees.


The AOB should not be changing - Someone wired the position keeper back to front.

[ParaB]

Great job guys in finding this bug! I've noticed that a couple of times my manual targetting was way off, now I know why.

Well done!

[NefariousKoel]

And excellent example Lio.

I was always wondering why my angles were off. That demonstrates the problem quite well.

[heartc]

Charos, that looks about right to me. When the target relative bearing changes, the AOB must change too, (except when target runs a circle around you with you in the middle).

Looks however as if the bug causing confusion in the first place has been identified. Great job guys! I've already thought I was seeing things when at one point the inner ring didn't move (and I was about to report this in the forum again), and then I did see it moving. Until reading the recent replies here I wasn't sure at all anymore if I was maybe drinking too much or something lol.

Originally Posted by Lio

Pic of TDC/attack map

I know your all Manual fanatics and such but a couple times when I'd go into attack map on auto solution (Tambor/Gar class) it wouldn't have that gyro angle thing so I'd have no idea were my torpedoes would go... finally tried with a Pourpois from the tutoral and it worked but could this be a bug?

[heartc]

Originally Posted by NefariousKoel

And excellent example Lio.

I was always wondering why my angles were off. That demonstrates the problem quite well.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but just to avoid confusion, I think what Lio wanted to demonstrate with that pic is how you USE the position keeper generally to find out solution errors, not showcase the bug. In his example, he set target speed (deliberately) too high so the position keeper generates relative target bearings that are "outrunning" the actual relative target bearings you can see through the scope/TBT. So you would have to lower target speed to correct for it.

P.S. Lio: Great pic. But instead of "True Bearing" rather say "Sighted Bearing" or "Actual Bearing", since "True Bearing" already has a meaning: Bearings aligned to North, or compass bearings. The opposite to Relative Bearing. So in your example, the target at a Sighted Relative Bearing of about 36 deg is at a True Bearing of 216 deg.

[Rykaird]

Originally Posted by Charos

Easy to see - go to the Torpedo training mission with the cruiser.

If you switch to easy settings you can instantly work out the cruiser is at AOB=80.

AOB will not (should not) vary as the cruiser is on a constant course and so is your sub (North).

But take a look at what the AOB indicator and the position keeper (upper dial) its CHANGING AOB.

It looks like this :

Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 320 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 40 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 330 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 50 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 340 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 60 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 350 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 70 Degrees.
Relative Bearing to Cruiser: 360 Degrees. Indicated AOB = 80 Degrees.


The AOB should not be changing - Someone wired the position keeper back to front.

Why wouldn't AoB change again? If the target is moving and I'm stationary - as in the torp school example - and he's moving from my left to my right, shouldn't AoB be rising to 90 as I am eventually sitting directly off his starboard side?

Sigh. I'll probably have to wait for the new Wiki to get this stuff.

[Observer]

Originally Posted by Rykaird

Why wouldn't AoB change again? If the target is moving and I'm stationary - as in the torp school example - and he's moving from my left to my right, shouldn't AoB be rising to 90 as I am eventually sitting directly off his starboard side?

Sigh. I'll probably have to wait for the new Wiki to get this stuff.

As the target's relative motion draws it from port to starboard (torpedo attack mission in submarine school) the targets AOB will change. This is easily demonstrated by drawing a constant target course and measuring target AOB at various points on the track. The image below shows the change in AOB as the target progresses on its track.



Slightly OT: This image was done to demonstrate how manual plotting should be done on the attack plot using the positon keeper function on the TDC to refine the targets solution. This is the complete series from the initial observation to final solution on a non-maneuvering contact:

[Onkel Neal]

Good job, Lio, all you guys. First class bug report.