Hydrophone hunting tutorial for GWX - D/L links here - Page 3

greyrider · 05-04-07, 09:35 PM

i received your PM canovero, and thank you for inviting me to this thread.
the only subsims that i play was the silent hunter series, sh1 to sh4.
we all know that sh1 and sh2 had only one screw sound for propellers,
so it was impossible to do anything with sound with those versions.
so when frank, who was bdu at the time at wpl posted, and asked what should be
included in the next version of sh, i PM frank, and told him about how the u s navy was, or thought of using propeller turncounts
to determine speeds of enemy ships.
like neal, frank must have been in touch with the devs, and they could influence the devs into making the new version more realistic.
so i did write frank, and lo and behold, the new version, (sh3) had propeller sounds that we could use to determine different speeds.
tho the devs worked on it, and this was a start, they did not model propeller pitch realistically.
the way i made the rpm charts was the only way to do it. it was not real, but i was not going to let this opportunity slip away
and i demonstrated that sound can be used to sink ships.
heck when i was an forward observer, and i called for arty
on targets, i used the speed of sound itself to adjust rounds on target, along with my binos, nothing like getting steel on steel
and i could do that alot.
but in reality, how did they do it? how did they make speed curves for enemy ships, that i read in the torpedo fire control manual?
well, a lot of enemy ships had thier turbines built in england, from vickers shipyards, and Brown-Curtis, maybe others.
so these turbines driving propellers of enemy ships were made in an allied country, so in many cases, enemy ship engines sizes
and ratings were known already, and the allies knew what they had, and the propeller pitch could be figured out.
another way was to use the stadimeter, get a speed by observation, then listen in the sound room, for the rpm of that speed, record it
and pass out that info in speed curve charts to the rest of the fleetboats over the course of time.
until we get a sim, maybe sh5, that does model propeller pitch properly, we are limited in what we can do here.
i want to ask a favor from all you sh4 captains out there, i do not want to make speed charts the unreal way, and im not, so what i am doing
is when i play the game, i use the scope first to time the passing of a target, from bow to stern, passing the vertical line of the scope,
i use the formula:
3600 x length of ship / observed time / 2023 yards, at or near a 90 degree angle.
this gives the speed of the target from the scope, and then i go to the sound room, and record the rpm for 1 minute.
if we all do this, and contribute as a "fleet", we will have a good amount of speed curves or charts of enemy ships, and there can be no doubt
about the reality of getting the infomation in this fashion.
ill start with a couple of speeds of a couple of ships.

shiratsuyu destroyer: 12 sec scope time, 18 knots, 71 rpm.

akizuki destroyer: 14 sec scope time, 18 knots, 73 rpm.

medium old split freighter: 26 sec scope time, 9 knots, 40 rpm.
33 sec scope time, 6 knots, 34 rpm.

large old split freighter: 29 sec scope time, 9 knots, 26 rpm.

coastal composite freighter: 17 sec scope time, 9 knots, 47 rpm.

takao heavy cruiser: 31 sec scope time, 13 knots, 42 rpm.

medium modern split freighter: 31 sec scope time, 6 knots, 42 rpm.

large modern composite freighter: 45 sec scope time, 6 knots, 38 rpm.

the above is a pretty good display of military intelligence, for future encounters with these and other targets,
when you go out on your combat patrols,
bring back some intelligence!

oops, guess these observations belong in the sh4 forum
__________________

kevtherev · 05-12-07, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raduz

It works in GWX. The only thing it changes are the propeller sound files. Replacing GWX propeller sounds by the stock propellers allows you to use the RPM chart for ID contacts and determinate its speed.

I have GWX with 1.3 patch installed. Installed your tutorial as per 'read me' except that I did not copy the folder 'sound' as you stated, I only copied the contents to SH3/dat/sound folder overwriting when asked.Two of your missions worked fine for me (Intercept and Blind Shoot), the other two (Prop sound and Range to Target) caused CTD. Looking at the last two missions in Mission Editor, every time I tried to bring up the properties for Fleet Auxilliary Ammunition this also CTD'd. Changed these ships for Whale Factory (maybe you could suggest better) now everything is fine both with GWX and Mission Editor. This took some discovering for me and may only apply to my installation although I do not see why ! Anyway thanks for the tutorial, now I can get on with the learning.

raduz · 05-12-07, 09:24 AM

Interesting... I have never encountered such a problem and I have no clue whats the cause. anyway I am glad you find a solution that works

WeeBubba · 06-08-07, 11:00 PM

hello raduz

thankyou for kindly providing this tutorial. i am new to SH3 and am playing on 100% realism. i am keen to learn the hydrophone techniques.

like the last poster, when i accessed the propellor indentification mission, i also got CTD. i will also change to wale factory? is that ok?

thanks

WeeBubba · 06-08-07, 11:07 PM

hello if it is any help i am running GWX 1.03 with SH3comander1.7 and waves mod. how do i change to wale ship? im in mission editor but i dont know ow to fix. will this make tutorial redundant? thanks

Mueller72 · 06-09-07, 06:29 AM

Thanx for this Raduz. I will give it a try.

I suggest to make the changed files JSGME compatible. Its easier for people to install then.

Best Regards,
Mueller72

greyrider · 06-10-07, 08:25 PM

In the documentation that originally comes from Grayrider there is also information and bearing tables about making shots with no gyro*.
- Does this still work with GWX?
Canovaro

not often do i come to the sh3 forums to read or post, but i check on this thread once in a while.

i see a few posts above some people asking for the bearing speed charts for sh3,
for use with the hydrophones.

you can get them here: http://hosted.filefront.com/greyrider/

the file is called:
bearing_speed_charts_sh3

these charts are for straight running torpedoes of 30, 40, and 44 knot speeds.

Canovaro · 06-11-07, 01:31 AM

greyrider seems you have been very productive with all those charts.

Thanks. Will have to find a program to open or convert those files first, so will comment on them later.

dmlavan · 06-14-07, 10:14 AM

Raduz, Greyrider,
Great job on your respective hydrophone tutorials - very well written and clear. Now my hydrophone operator is no longer hiding in his shack eating sausages - he has the captain looking over his shoulder!

jmr · 06-14-07, 10:42 AM

What do I need to open these .wks files? Excell isn't working for me when I try to open them.

raduz · 06-14-07, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmlavan

Raduz, Greyrider,
Great job on your respective hydrophone tutorials - very well written and clear. Now my hydrophone operator is no longer hiding in his shack eating sausages - he has the captain looking over his shoulder!

yap, thats the way it is supposed to work

Canovaro · 12-31-07, 06:06 AM

Raduz, you know I'm a big fan of your hydro stuff. any plans on making a chart for GWX 2?
There are a lot of new ships...:hmm:

Pisces · 12-31-07, 11:02 AM

I had some private message traffic last week with Raduz and he said he wasn't doing anything with SH3 thesedays. So don't count on it. But he did edit his first post of this thread (a day or so ago) adding a fix for the missions that crash that I found out.

I think somebody else would need to do an update for GWX2.

pino69 · 02-03-08, 01:42 PM

Up.

No GWX2 version yet ?
Can I use the actualversion w/o bugs? Does it mean a whole mess or simply uncomplete charts because of new ships in GWX2 compare to GWX1.3 ?

Gezur(Arbeit) · 02-03-08, 02:29 PM

Is this method realistic, did the captains in WWII use the same tactics?

05-04-07, 09:35 PM	#31
greyrider Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: massachusetts Posts: 334 Downloads: 237 Uploads: 0	i received your PM canovero, and thank you for inviting me to this thread. the only subsims that i play was the silent hunter series, sh1 to sh4. we all know that sh1 and sh2 had only one screw sound for propellers, so it was impossible to do anything with sound with those versions. so when frank, who was bdu at the time at wpl posted, and asked what should be included in the next version of sh, i PM frank, and told him about how the u s navy was, or thought of using propeller turncounts to determine speeds of enemy ships. like neal, frank must have been in touch with the devs, and they could influence the devs into making the new version more realistic. so i did write frank, and lo and behold, the new version, (sh3) had propeller sounds that we could use to determine different speeds. tho the devs worked on it, and this was a start, they did not model propeller pitch realistically. the way i made the rpm charts was the only way to do it. it was not real, but i was not going to let this opportunity slip away and i demonstrated that sound can be used to sink ships. heck when i was an forward observer, and i called for arty on targets, i used the speed of sound itself to adjust rounds on target, along with my binos, nothing like getting steel on steel and i could do that alot. but in reality, how did they do it? how did they make speed curves for enemy ships, that i read in the torpedo fire control manual? well, a lot of enemy ships had thier turbines built in england, from vickers shipyards, and Brown-Curtis, maybe others. so these turbines driving propellers of enemy ships were made in an allied country, so in many cases, enemy ship engines sizes and ratings were known already, and the allies knew what they had, and the propeller pitch could be figured out. another way was to use the stadimeter, get a speed by observation, then listen in the sound room, for the rpm of that speed, record it and pass out that info in speed curve charts to the rest of the fleetboats over the course of time. until we get a sim, maybe sh5, that does model propeller pitch properly, we are limited in what we can do here. i want to ask a favor from all you sh4 captains out there, i do not want to make speed charts the unreal way, and im not, so what i am doing is when i play the game, i use the scope first to time the passing of a target, from bow to stern, passing the vertical line of the scope, i use the formula: 3600 x length of ship / observed time / 2023 yards, at or near a 90 degree angle. this gives the speed of the target from the scope, and then i go to the sound room, and record the rpm for 1 minute. if we all do this, and contribute as a "fleet", we will have a good amount of speed curves or charts of enemy ships, and there can be no doubt about the reality of getting the infomation in this fashion. ill start with a couple of speeds of a couple of ships. shiratsuyu destroyer: 12 sec scope time, 18 knots, 71 rpm. akizuki destroyer: 14 sec scope time, 18 knots, 73 rpm. medium old split freighter: 26 sec scope time, 9 knots, 40 rpm. 33 sec scope time, 6 knots, 34 rpm. large old split freighter: 29 sec scope time, 9 knots, 26 rpm. coastal composite freighter: 17 sec scope time, 9 knots, 47 rpm. takao heavy cruiser: 31 sec scope time, 13 knots, 42 rpm. medium modern split freighter: 31 sec scope time, 6 knots, 42 rpm. large modern composite freighter: 45 sec scope time, 6 knots, 38 rpm. the above is a pretty good display of military intelligence, for future encounters with these and other targets, when you go out on your combat patrols, bring back some intelligence! oops, guess these observations belong in the sh4 forum __________________ __________________ Her gun crew had guts, however, for from her canting bow came a half dozen well-aimed rounds. How they pointed and trained their gun on that tilting platform will long remain a wonder, and their dedication in keeping up the fire until they went under would be a matter of pride to any nation. O'Kane, Richard. Clear the Bridge!: The War Patrols of the U.S.S. Tang Last edited by greyrider; 05-07-07 at 10:32 AM.

06-09-07, 06:29 AM	#36
Mueller72 Seaman Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Berlin Posts: 40 Downloads: 27 Uploads: 0	Thanx for this Raduz. I will give it a try. I suggest to make the changed files JSGME compatible. Its easier for people to install then. Best Regards, Mueller72 __________________

05-12-07, 09:24 AM	#33
raduz Engineer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Slovakia Posts: 205 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Interesting... I have never encountered such a problem and I have no clue whats the cause. anyway I am glad you find a solution that works

06-08-07, 11:00 PM	#34
WeeBubba Loader Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 87 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	hello raduz thankyou for kindly providing this tutorial. i am new to SH3 and am playing on 100% realism. i am keen to learn the hydrophone techniques. like the last poster, when i accessed the propellor indentification mission, i also got CTD. i will also change to wale factory? is that ok? thanks

06-08-07, 11:07 PM	#35
WeeBubba Loader Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 87 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	hello if it is any help i am running GWX 1.03 with SH3comander1.7 and waves mod. how do i change to wale ship? im in mission editor but i dont know ow to fix. will this make tutorial redundant? thanks

06-10-07, 08:25 PM	#37
greyrider Watch Officer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: massachusetts Posts: 334 Downloads: 237 Uploads: 0	In the documentation that originally comes from Grayrider there is also information and bearing tables about making shots with no gyro. - Does this still work with GWX? Canovaro not often do i come to the sh3 forums to read or post, but i check on this thread once in a while. i see a few posts above some people asking for the bearing speed charts for sh3, for use with the hydrophones. you can get them here: http://hosted.filefront.com/greyrider/ the file is called: bearing_speed_charts_sh3* these charts are for straight running torpedoes of 30, 40, and 44 knot speeds.

06-11-07, 01:31 AM	#38
Canovaro Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,062 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	greyrider seems you have been very productive with all those charts. Thanks. Will have to find a program to open or convert those files first, so will comment on them later.

06-14-07, 10:14 AM	#39
dmlavan Weps Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 351 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Raduz, Greyrider, Great job on your respective hydrophone tutorials - very well written and clear. Now my hydrophone operator is no longer hiding in his shack eating sausages - he has the captain looking over his shoulder!

06-14-07, 10:42 AM	#40
jmr Commander Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 462 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	What do I need to open these .wks files? Excell isn't working for me when I try to open them.

12-31-07, 06:06 AM	#42
Canovaro Ace of the Deep Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,062 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	Raduz, you know I'm a big fan of your hydro stuff. any plans on making a chart for GWX 2? There are a lot of new ships...:hmm:

12-31-07, 11:02 AM	#43
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	I had some private message traffic last week with Raduz and he said he wasn't doing anything with SH3 thesedays. So don't count on it. But he did edit his first post of this thread (a day or so ago) adding a fix for the missions that crash that I found out. I think somebody else would need to do an update for GWX2.

02-03-08, 01:42 PM	#44
pino69 Watch Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 30 Downloads: 102 Uploads: 0	Up. No GWX2 version yet ? Can I use the actualversion w/o bugs? Does it mean a whole mess or simply uncomplete charts because of new ships in GWX2 compare to GWX1.3 ?

02-03-08, 02:29 PM	#45
Gezur(Arbeit) Soundman Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 149 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Is this method realistic, did the captains in WWII use the same tactics?