What about SH4 improvements that really count?

Ok, I've heard that SH4 will have prettier graphics, prettier graphics, prettier graphics, prettier graphics, and prettier graphics. To make my point short, the focus has been mostly on improved graphics (plus some talk of UI, lifeboats, rescue missions, and more radio traffic). But what about improvements that really count, such as gameplay? I am talking about improved ai, improved realism, small and important gameplay details, etc. There has been very little mention of this that I have seen. I know that pretty graphics sell games, but graphics alone do not make a game enjoyable. It appears that the developers may have put too much time and effort focusing on pretty external graphics, while possibly neglecting important gameplay features. I can't say for sure because I don't have SH4 yet, and I hope I'm wrong. Playing the game using free roam camera isn't exactly important if it sacrifices realistic gameplay development. Silent Hunter is supposed to be a simulator, not a first person shooter. If SH4 were to be released so it could be easily modded, maybe I wouldn't be so concerned. But as I am a SH3 modder, I can say that there are too many important things hard-coded (such as ai behavior) in SH3. And I'm fairly sure SH4 will be released the same way. I guess all we can hope for is that they will release the SDK for SH3 so we can fix it right.

I guess what I was trying to say in my first post is for everyone not to get too excited before we actually get our hands on the game. SH3 was and is a great game, but there were some big disappointments after it's half-finished release. Hopefully SH4 will be released more... ummm ... complete. Will SH4 be all fluff and no filling? We'll see...

[Torplexed]

Only time will tell.

[flyingdane]

IT will have big shoes to fill but i think SH4 will top SH3 in more ways than graphics....Like better AI, better interface, better codeing and so on.

Originally Posted by flyingdane

IT will have big shoes to fill but i think SH4 will top SH3 in more ways than graphics....Like better AI, better interface, better codeing and so on.

I am starting to get concerned, because I am once again seeing some worrying and familiar signs in the pre-release of SH4 that were the same signs in other previously released sims that ended up being majorly unfinished let downs. By this I mean mostly the pre-release focus and excitement on new, improved, pretty graphics and crickets chirping silence regarding improved ai and realism features. But I hope you're right.

[flyingdane]

Well the devs know that to top SH3 there has to be more then just looks or it will not sell as well.

[Snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

I am starting to get concerned, because I am once again seeing some worrying and familiar signs in the pre-release of SH4 that were the same signs in other previously released sims that ended up being majorly unfinished let downs. By this I mean mostly the pre-release focus and excitement on new, improved, pretty graphics and crickets chirping silence regarding improved ai and realism features. But I hope you're right.

Yeah, amen to that. It did seem that SH4 came out damn fast but who am I to complain? Looking at the staff and how they reach out to the community they should KNOW that if they crap on their serious fan-base (that would be us) down goes their profits. I'm not worried. It's going to kick ass in terms of realism AND looks. You'll see.

[Captain Krunch]

The number one improvement to me is that the game is American subs back in the Pacific theater, just like the original Silent Hunter. No offense to those who prefer the German side of things, but I'm a huge fan of the American sub campaign, so SH4 is a very welcome effort to me.

In regards to the comments about prettier graphics, I say bring it on! Since I did not play either SH2 or SH3, the graphics we've been seeing in recent screenshots and videos, which are lightyears ahead of what SH1 had, are raising my excitment level tremendously. And to confirm this to myself, I just finished playing about an hour of SH1 via DosBox. My goodness, the graphics are bad. Sprites for ships, cartoon clouds and waves, and SVGA resolution (stretched on a widescreen LCD no less). UGH! I cannot wait to see my sub and the enemy ships in 3D; it's going to be fun.

As for gameplay, I can't imagine it being much worse than SH1, and that's still a very fun game, so if it ends up being as good as SH1, I'll be happy. From what I've read, it'll pretty much have all the gameplay features one would need to simulate a WWII sub in the Pacific. I've ready many biographies and books about the American sub force, and have many expectations of what a proper sub sim should be, yet I have no worries that Silent Hunter 4 will miss the boat (Pun intended).

Still, in the end, I'm getting a bit bothered by all this negativity. I don't think it's very proper to damn, or praise, the game before it's released. Let's give the developers the opportunity to succeed or fail on the merits of the final product, not screenshots or videos of pre-release builds.

Originally Posted by Captain Krunch

The number one improvement to me is that the game is American subs back in the Pacific theater, just like the original Silent Hunter. No offense to those who prefer the German side of things, but I'm a huge fan of the American sub campaign, so SH4 is a very welcome effort to me.

In regards to the comments about prettier graphics, I say bring it on! Since I did not play either SH2 or SH3, the graphics we've been seeing in recent screenshots and videos, which are lightyears ahead of what SH1 had, are raising my excitment level tremendously. And to confirm this to myself, I just finished playing about an hour of SH1 via DosBox. My goodness, the graphics are bad. Sprites for ships, cartoon clouds and waves, and SVGA resolution (stretched on a widescreen LCD no less). UGH! I cannot wait to see my sub and the enemy ships in 3D; it's going to be fun.

As for gameplay, I can't imagine it being much worse than SH1, and that's still a very fun game, so if it ends up being as good as SH1, I'll be happy. From what I've read, it'll pretty much have all the gameplay features one would need to simulate a WWII sub in the Pacific. I've ready many biographies and books about the American sub force, and have many expectations of what a proper sub sim should be, yet I have no worries that Silent Hunter 4 will miss the boat (Pun intended).

Still, in the end, I'm getting a bit bothered by all this negativity. I don't think it's very proper to damn, or praise, the game before it's released. Let's give the developers the opportunity to succeed or fail on the merits of the final product, not screenshots or videos of pre-release builds.

Good post. But I am not 'damning' SH4 before it 's released. All I am saying is that I am getting worried with all the focus on prettier graphics and very little mention of realism and gameplay improvements. I have followed a lot of pre-released sims that were released unfinished and had poor gameplay due to too much focus on developing pretty graphics. And I hate to say this, but it looks like SH4 is following the same path. I could be wrong, and I hope I am. But the only thing that saved SH3 was the modding community. But there are limits to what modders can fix.

[Aimbot]

Originally Posted by Captain Krunch

Still, in the end, I'm getting a bit bothered by all this negativity. I don't think it's very proper to damn, or praise, the game before it's released. Let's give the developers the opportunity to succeed or fail on the merits of the final product, not screenshots or videos of pre-release builds.

This happens on every forum for a sequel to a video game series. The OP is being perfectly reasonable, but there is a martyr complex that a vocal minority of any long standing video game series always will have. I don't see why this game would be any different.
"Why doesn't [X] have [Y]?! Everyone wants [Y]! They're just dumbing down gameplay and ratcheting up the graphics to snag the main stream gamer! I'll never spend my money on this crap, but I'm still the one and only authority of the quality of the game. If you buy the product you have personally offended me and have no taste."

They've mentioned the interface more often than I could say, and they've supposedly included many more ships than there were in III. It looks like the atmosphere within the sub has improved, we've seen screens of crew members knocked off their feet and the crew management is improved, as is damage control. It looks promising to me.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by Captain Krunch

The number one improvement to me is that the game is American subs back in the Pacific theater, just like the original Silent Hunter. No offense to those who prefer the German side of things, but I'm a huge fan of the American sub campaign, so SH4 is a very welcome effort to me.

I grew to love Pre atomic submersible warfare twenty years ago almost
by playing silent service and reading Undersea victory as my first text
on the subject as a History book it had the virtue of reading better than
most fiction. However I became enthralled with the subject and both
Campaigns were Incredibly titanic. Gargantuan efforts

the whole thing is incredible to discover and Although I started On the
american campaign I cant limit myself to just it. The story of the
Battle of the Atlantic is amazing as a subject unto itself also

thats what makes the whole study of early submarine warfare so good
the wealth and richness and depth of it. there are so many aspects
that influenced the outcomes of the Three major strategic sub campaigns
of History.


in short.

SH5 should have Alled and Axis Driveable subs and surface ships
AI subs and surface ships and be available from 1937 from 1946
World wide with US, UK, Cdn,Italian,French, German, Russian, Japanese
Chinese,Brazilian, and other Home playable combatant
countries this would be a plus for Ubi
as it would only have to pay for one dev to cover the both markets
Destroyer guys and sub guys. doubling sales and lowering overhead
and it would pull the genre out of
enland and make it a Global game, Further Campaigning online
would be much improved. including built in VOIP interceptable
radio.
with an SDK released as the gold edition bonus prize.
player and AI weaps should be interchangeable
Torpedo bombers are essetnial.
MM

wadda ya think.....................................

[edit] ooopps I forgot to include the flyboys.
That would be cool online a player captain of a carrier ordering
a player pilot off the deck to respond to a player sub spotted
by an ai convoy and player frigates detaching to the contact.

yeah I can see it now!.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by nvdrifter

I guess what I was trying to say in my first post is for everyone not to get too excited before we actually get our hands on the game. SH3 was and is a great game, but there were some big disappointments after it's half-finished release. Hopefully SH4 will be released more... ummm ... complete. Will SH4 be all fluff and no filling? We'll see...

Well said, we will see soon.

[TDK1044]

For me, the Devs deserve a lot of credit here. Dan and his team have worked very hard at taking a WWII sub sim to the next level. They have listened to and acted upon various opinions expressed in this and other Forums, and I believe that most fair minded people will give them the praise that they are certainly due when the game is released.

Silent Hunter 4 won't please everyone in every way, how could it? But I honestly believe that we will see significant improvements over Silent Hunter 3 in gameplay and graphical appearance.

So let's try and keep a sense fairness and common sense when the game is released, and not start nit picking about cosmetics. I think that this time the modders will be making subjective enhancements to the game rather than trying to fix it.

[Mush Martin]

Originally Posted by TDK1044

For me, the Devs deserve a lot of credit here. Dan and his team have worked very hard at taking a WWII sub sim to the next level. They have listened to and acted upon various opinions expressed in this and other Forums, and I believe that most fair minded people will give them the praise that they are certainly due when the game is released.

Silent Hunter 4 won't please everyone in every way, how could it? But I honestly believe that we will see significant improvements over Silent Hunter 3 in gameplay and graphical appearance.

So let's try and keep a sense fairness and common sense when the game is released, and not start nit picking about cosmetics. I think that this time the modders will be making subjective enhancements to the game rather than trying to fix it.

Its because theyve been so responsive and listened to the community
that Im starting to frame up 5 now.LOL

[Iron Budokan]

Here's my prediction. I think the improved gameplay will surprise everyone. The downer will come when gamers say, "Hey, my game doesn't look as eye-candy pretty as the uber-cool photos released by UBI."

And it won't. A lot of those in-game photos have been obviously tweaked for dramatic purposes.

Anyway, please remember the devs have said SH4 is built on an SH3 engine. There's only so much you can do with that. Please, don't get me wrong. I'm very eager to get my hot little hands on this game. I've already pre-ordered it like most people on this board. And if some elements in the game do suck canal water then I'm sure our superior modder community will do everything they can to correct those problems....

Finally, SH5 will be about German subs. SH3 sold too well for UBI not to return to that well once more....