1.04 reluctance? - Page 3

XabbaRus · 02-05-07, 03:07 PM

OK Sub don't know where you are coming from but play nice.

goldorak · 02-05-07, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Sub

they are Akula players who basically want to get the seawolf as easy kills.

If you are talking about LWAMI mod i will laugh my ass off.

Also, i smell this stench of those who think they have a better game by making it the way they want they lure the people playing their dumbdata by improved models for example.

This is simply not true.

Man, I'm happy not to play with you.

LuftWolf · 02-05-07, 03:18 PM

LOL @ hatrz

Self-pwnshp approved.

/immature

Cheers,
David

Captain Sub · 02-05-07, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Sub

they are Akula players who basically want to get the seawolf as easy kills.

If you are talking about LWAMI mod i will laugh my ass off.

Also, i smell this stench of those who think they have a better game by making it the way they want they lure the people playing their dumbdata by improved models for example.

This is simply not true.

Man, I'm happy not to play with you.

so am i

fatty · 02-05-07, 03:20 PM

Actually now that I think, 90% of the people I've been playing with who refuse to upgrade also bear the Silent Sharks tag... :hmm:

Anyway, cheers LuftWolf. If any of you guys are interested I would be happy to host weekly LWAMI games for us.

LuftWolf · 02-05-07, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fatty

Actually now that I think, 90% of the people I've been playing with who refuse to upgrade also bear the Silent Sharks tag... :hmm:

Anyway, cheers LuftWolf. If any of you guys are interested I would be happy to host weekly LWAMI games for us.

Sounds good, I'll be sure to PM you if a group of us are getting together!

Cheers,
David

goldorak · 02-05-07, 03:23 PM

A lot of people have adopted the lwami mod because they recognize that the mod improves dramatically the game.
To say a few, the french comunity on mille-sabords, the italian comunity on betasom and surely several virtual fleets.
So you're not out of players.

Molon Labe · 02-05-07, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Sub

If you are talking about LWAMI mod i will laugh my ass off.

Also, i smell this stench of those who think they have a better game by making it the way they want they lure the people playing their dumbdata by improved models for example.

Hey, if you've got better data, show LW your source and he'll listen. There's no need to take cheap shots like that.

And as for the balance issues, suffice to say that there are plenty of people on both sides of the SW v. Akula issue that want things to go their way and can't see the other side of things. Neither side has the moral high ground.

Nexus7 · 02-05-07, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

A lot of people have adopted the lwami mod because they recognize that the mod improves dramatically the game.
To say a few, the french comunity on mille-sabords, the italian comunity on betasom and surely several virtual fleets.
So you're not out of players.

I think some respect for those who actually B.U.I.L.T the simulator is due!!!

Now I would figure... If I was used to develop simulators for the US navy, I think what I do it's not gathering some info here and there and paste it into a game somehow! But maybe you never did work.

Then some people think they know it better... they come and start playing with my database settings.

Not enought, you gather credit for that... more than the developer itself ROFL...

Congratulations folks, IMO you got the game totally unbalanced!

goldorak · 02-05-07, 05:52 PM

Nexus7 : do you remember the state DW was in when it was shipped by Battlefront, afterwards by Strategy First and then Steam ?
It was not a finished game in any sense of the word.
We were basically betatesting a software.
From the limited resources SCS invested in Dangerous Waters and the low sales numbers came the realization that to bring the game to "realistic" simulation levels would require 3-rd party modding.
This in no way diminishes what SCS has done, and believe me when I say that they did a terrific job (multistation, integrated battlespace, etc...).

LuftWolf · 02-05-07, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

A lot of people have adopted the lwami mod because they recognize that the mod improves dramatically the game.
To say a few, the french comunity on mille-sabords, the italian comunity on betasom and surely several virtual fleets.
So you're not out of players.

I think some respect for those who actually B.U.I.L.T the simulator is due!!!

Now I would figure... If I was used to develop simulators for the US navy, I think what I do it's not gathering some info here and there and paste it into a game somehow! But maybe you never did work.

Then some people think they know it better... they come and start playing with my database settings.

Not enought, you gather credit for that... more than the developer itself ROFL...

Congratulations folks, IMO you got the game totally unbalanced!

Given the fact that Jamie (DW producer) told me that our database and doctrine set is a substantial improvement over stock DW in terms of bringing the civilian version more in line with the contract (military) version, such comments as those listed above are simply amusing for people familiar with the software.

Also, the fact that SCS has taken numerous pieces of our work and applied them to DW (sonobuoy depths, MH60 dipping sonar, non-exploding on CM torpedoes, etc) is confirmation that I am heading the in right direction.

Say what you want, LWAMI is a proven commodity and well beyond the reach of people who don't get it, and don't want to.

Play the game the way you want, and have fun, but don't mislead yourself into thinking you are doing one thing when you are really doing another.

Cheers,
David

Molon Labe · 02-05-07, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexus7

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldorak

A lot of people have adopted the lwami mod because they recognize that the mod improves dramatically the game.
To say a few, the french comunity on mille-sabords, the italian comunity on betasom and surely several virtual fleets.
So you're not out of players.

I think some respect for those who actually B.U.I.L.T the simulator is due!!!

Now I would figure... If I was used to develop simulators for the US navy, I think what I do it's not gathering some info here and there and paste it into a game somehow! But maybe you never did work.

Then some people think they know it better... they come and start playing with my database settings.

Not enought, you gather credit for that... more than the developer itself ROFL...

Congratulations folks, IMO you got the game totally unbalanced!

So you really think that the "65 cm" acoustic homing wireguided torpedo is real, and the 65-76 wakehomer is made up?

You really think that a DB that hasn't been updated since Fleet Command is up-to-date?

You really think that having helo's that don't dip, and aircraft that don't prosecute and engage is more balanced?

You really think that ASROCs and SUBROCs overshooting their targets by several miles is more realistic? And that having surface ships that can never hit their targets because if that is more balanced?

You really think that the AEGIS system won't engage even high-altitude missiles until they're within 10 miles?

You really think that the STIR and CAS radars have the capability to illuminate targets through the horizon?

You really think that SLMM's and mobile mines are supposed to dissapear after deploying instead of staying in place until a ship passes over and then exploding?

You really think that launching a missile from a submarine doesn't produce an assload of noise?

You really think that the RAM SAM is incapable of hitting ASMs?

You really think that the antiquated rear-aspect SA-7 is 100% effective against low flying aircraft?

You really think that a Kilo at flank is quieter than a Seawolf at rest?

You reallly think that the TB-23 is not deployed on board the 688I?

I can go on forever...
So, once again, if you think you have better information, by all means share it. But considering all the stuff in the stock DB I've poked at above, SCS's stock database is entitled to NO DEFERENCE AT ALL. Assuming that the stock database is right and that all other sources are wrong, without any critical thought about what is more plausible is, well...thoughtless.

Molon Labe · 02-05-07, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuftWolf

Also, the fact that SCS has taken numerous pieces of our work and applied them to DW (sonobuoy depths, MH60 dipping sonar, non-exploding on CM torpedoes, etc) is confirmation that I am heading the in right direction.

Don't forget about the active sonar fixes you made back around 1.01 that SCS followed up on in 1.03.

ADM Sfduke NCO-SSN · 02-05-07, 06:31 PM

<S>

With the new 1.4 patch for DW there are some problems with the new setting with the patch.
All thou there have been some good fix’s with the patch. The fact is that some changes have made it very unfair.
The new (DW.INI) setting for one, and the ranges of torps for the SW another.
1st There is no way to know what the host has set the decoys to work at.
This does not allow all games to be played the same as others are.
So in some games a player may get kills easier than another player in another game.
Like some decoys in one game being set to 50%, and another 100%. Or 0% to 50%.
This would be unfair to all players trying to get kills and points.
We have a standard set of options to make it the same for all and fair for all.
This new (DW.INI) setting does not allow this to be done.
Next is the fact that now SW torps only go out to 20nmi.
This allows an akula player to stay at 21nmi away and kill the SW player at will.
The SW player would not be able to hit the akula at that range.
This along with the new decoy setting gives the akula player a great advantage vs. the SW player.
They could also out run the SW torp if they were like 12.5nmi away.
This means all subs would need to be set to inside 12.5nmi from each other.
With all of this now All SSN maps would be out of date, and new maps would have to be made.
Along with not being able to, put to many platforms in a map to keep all platforms together.
I can not believe sonalysts would put out a patch that could be used by the host to cheat others.
The new decoy ini setting allow the host to do this.
Along with the new SW torp ranges would give the akula a great advantage over SW players.
One thing I am sick of is these it’s more real players or more realistic.
The same players calling the moon was too big and too many star’s is not realistic from there basement in the city LOL.
Never having seen the Moon as big as it can be seen and as many star’s that you be able to see in the open sea.
The same players that say to make it more fair, is to download the lwami mod to make it fair! LOL!
The fact’s are the more real you try to make a game the less fair it becomes!
The fact an akula would need to be less than 12.5 nmi away from a SW before the SW could kill the akula!
Or the Akula could just run away is a fact in this new 1.4 and with that so unfair to even play.
Why were only the SW torps ranges changed and not the fact you should be able to hear a rocket being fired from an Akula?
This new patch was put out to give the akula host and player an advantage over any SW player and even a cheat to do it with!
With the new decoy setting! LOL!
The point is the 1.4 is unfair and know longer fun or fair for SW players.
The point is the game was fun before and fair. If they would of, just did the fixes and not add the decoys ini setting and the new SW torp ranges.
The patch would have been great! The player here are the same player that posted before about the subs not moving real and made them look like toy subs in a bath tube with the 1.3 and made the akula cut its array.
I have sent two E-mail to sonalysts about this with out any reply now for a week and a masg to Jamie with know reply yet!
Only to find out he’s no longer with them! LOL!
Players will play what they like as they did with the mods!
I don't think you will find many SW players using this patch!
Why you may not find some player in game spy is because they like to play coop games vs. (AI’s).
You will only find players that enjoy a game that is fair and fun to be played vs. another player here in game spy.
The plm posting in the forums is you have a few that post the truth and for everyone you have another 10 that say that is not true.
Players you see that post the most are the one’s that need everyone to think they know more than all other’s.
This could be so fair from the truth it’s not even funny! These players think they know everything and know very little!
The only things they know, is what is best for them to be able to win more easy
If you don't think this is true do the test. Have another player get in the Akula and SW with show truth on get 12.5nmi away and fire.
Have the akula just run away. I am also sick of player saying the SW array is so much better than the akula’s. I have played many very good players in both. In most all case’s both pick each other up at the same time. Some times it depends on the sea state or layer type. On who picks who up 1st?
If the SW has a better array than the akula it is so small it is point less to even talk about!
The point that this game allows players to make and pick maps that makes it very hard to pick up players from more than 12.5nmi away or even less.
With the sea state, bottom type, weather and more. There was know big call to change the decoys or the SW trop ranges.
1st players that are good player know this to be an unfair advantage to the akula’s and the ini setting nothing more than away for a host to be able to cheat! With all players having to take his word on what he has them set too, and No way to check!
Why would anyone need to download a mod to make it fairer unless the patch made it unfair to start?
I don't post here because what is said here most of the time is just bull! And for ever good post you have another 10 players posting more bull!
So for all you player that was to jump all over this post have to it! I will not be replying to it!
This is only a post to let others read and do the test for them self’s.
Some will stay with the 1.3 some will still play the 1.4 and some will play both!
We here at the Silent Sharks Navy will only use the 1.3 to keep a standard game play and to be fair for all players.

<S>
ADM Sfduke NCO SSN

LuftWolf · 02-05-07, 06:41 PM

Thanks for the diplomatic reply.

Everyone here needs to understand that when I talk about DW, I talk solely about MODDED DW, which is, of course, my (totally biased) preference.

In the context of Modded DW, the DW 1.04 patch is *everything* we could have hoped for, mostly because the issues that it raises for stock players are simply non-issues in modded DW.

For those playing non-modded DW in particular settings such as fleets, I understand why 1.04 would cause such consternation because of the way it shifts the balance of the game, perhaps quite unexpectedly for some players.

In this light, I think it's best for us to be clear when we discuss these things, and to stay positive.

Although, to be fair, don't be surprised when you come to SubSim and jump ugly with SubSim members about SubSim projects! One of the features of the DW community has been malevolent fractionalization, and everyone has their own way to play and of course everyone's way is the best and the right way.

You all can read in the first few lines of my readme why I'm doing this, to make DW more the way I want it to be. I've never hid that fact, so don't be surprised when it reflects OUR biases and opinions.

That's the great thing about DWedit... don't like something? Change it in the database and tell the fleet this is what to use now.

So my advice to you in the SSN, is to do some research into a few things that can help balance the game for your players, and then make a Database for you fleet, and then update to 1.04 and use those. Just some advice, let me know if you want some specific suggestions about what you can do to address the issue as I've got some ideas.

Cheers,
David

02-05-07, 03:07 PM	#31
XabbaRus Navy Seal Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 5,330 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	OK Sub don't know where you are coming from but play nice. __________________

02-05-07, 03:18 PM	#33
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	LOL @ hatrz Self-pwnshp approved. /immature Cheers, David __________________ LW

02-05-07, 06:31 PM	#44
ADM Sfduke NCO-SSN Swabbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 6 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	DW patch 1.4 <S> With the new 1.4 patch for DW there are some problems with the new setting with the patch. All thou there have been some good fix’s with the patch. The fact is that some changes have made it very unfair. The new (DW.INI) setting for one, and the ranges of torps for the SW another. 1st There is no way to know what the host has set the decoys to work at. This does not allow all games to be played the same as others are. So in some games a player may get kills easier than another player in another game. Like some decoys in one game being set to 50%, and another 100%. Or 0% to 50%. This would be unfair to all players trying to get kills and points. We have a standard set of options to make it the same for all and fair for all. This new (DW.INI) setting does not allow this to be done. Next is the fact that now SW torps only go out to 20nmi. This allows an akula player to stay at 21nmi away and kill the SW player at will. The SW player would not be able to hit the akula at that range. This along with the new decoy setting gives the akula player a great advantage vs. the SW player. They could also out run the SW torp if they were like 12.5nmi away. This means all subs would need to be set to inside 12.5nmi from each other. With all of this now All SSN maps would be out of date, and new maps would have to be made. Along with not being able to, put to many platforms in a map to keep all platforms together. I can not believe sonalysts would put out a patch that could be used by the host to cheat others. The new decoy ini setting allow the host to do this. Along with the new SW torp ranges would give the akula a great advantage over SW players. One thing I am sick of is these it’s more real players or more realistic. The same players calling the moon was too big and too many star’s is not realistic from there basement in the city LOL. Never having seen the Moon as big as it can be seen and as many star’s that you be able to see in the open sea. The same players that say to make it more fair, is to download the lwami mod to make it fair! LOL! The fact’s are the more real you try to make a game the less fair it becomes! The fact an akula would need to be less than 12.5 nmi away from a SW before the SW could kill the akula! Or the Akula could just run away is a fact in this new 1.4 and with that so unfair to even play. Why were only the SW torps ranges changed and not the fact you should be able to hear a rocket being fired from an Akula? This new patch was put out to give the akula host and player an advantage over any SW player and even a cheat to do it with! With the new decoy setting! LOL! The point is the 1.4 is unfair and know longer fun or fair for SW players. The point is the game was fun before and fair. If they would of, just did the fixes and not add the decoys ini setting and the new SW torp ranges. The patch would have been great! The player here are the same player that posted before about the subs not moving real and made them look like toy subs in a bath tube with the 1.3 and made the akula cut its array. I have sent two E-mail to sonalysts about this with out any reply now for a week and a masg to Jamie with know reply yet! Only to find out he’s no longer with them! LOL! Players will play what they like as they did with the mods! I don't think you will find many SW players using this patch! Why you may not find some player in game spy is because they like to play coop games vs. (AI’s). You will only find players that enjoy a game that is fair and fun to be played vs. another player here in game spy. The plm posting in the forums is you have a few that post the truth and for everyone you have another 10 that say that is not true. Players you see that post the most are the one’s that need everyone to think they know more than all other’s. This could be so fair from the truth it’s not even funny! These players think they know everything and know very little! The only things they know, is what is best for them to be able to win more easy If you don't think this is true do the test. Have another player get in the Akula and SW with show truth on get 12.5nmi away and fire. Have the akula just run away. I am also sick of player saying the SW array is so much better than the akula’s. I have played many very good players in both. In most all case’s both pick each other up at the same time. Some times it depends on the sea state or layer type. On who picks who up 1st? If the SW has a better array than the akula it is so small it is point less to even talk about! The point that this game allows players to make and pick maps that makes it very hard to pick up players from more than 12.5nmi away or even less. With the sea state, bottom type, weather and more. There was know big call to change the decoys or the SW trop ranges. 1st players that are good player know this to be an unfair advantage to the akula’s and the ini setting nothing more than away for a host to be able to cheat! With all players having to take his word on what he has them set too, and No way to check! Why would anyone need to download a mod to make it fairer unless the patch made it unfair to start? I don't post here because what is said here most of the time is just bull! And for ever good post you have another 10 players posting more bull! So for all you player that was to jump all over this post have to it! I will not be replying to it! This is only a post to let others read and do the test for them self’s. Some will stay with the 1.3 some will still play the 1.4 and some will play both! We here at the Silent Sharks Navy will only use the 1.3 to keep a standard game play and to be fair for all players. <S> ADM Sfduke NCO SSN

02-05-07, 06:41 PM	#45
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	Thanks for the diplomatic reply. Everyone here needs to understand that when I talk about DW, I talk solely about MODDED DW, which is, of course, my (totally biased) preference. In the context of Modded DW, the DW 1.04 patch is everything we could have hoped for, mostly because the issues that it raises for stock players are simply non-issues in modded DW. For those playing non-modded DW in particular settings such as fleets, I understand why 1.04 would cause such consternation because of the way it shifts the balance of the game, perhaps quite unexpectedly for some players. In this light, I think it's best for us to be clear when we discuss these things, and to stay positive. Although, to be fair, don't be surprised when you come to SubSim and jump ugly with SubSim members about SubSim projects! One of the features of the DW community has been malevolent fractionalization, and everyone has their own way to play and of course everyone's way is the best and the right way. You all can read in the first few lines of my readme why I'm doing this, to make DW more the way I want it to be. I've never hid that fact, so don't be surprised when it reflects OUR biases and opinions. That's the great thing about DWedit... don't like something? Change it in the database and tell the fleet this is what to use now. So my advice to you in the SSN, is to do some research into a few things that can help balance the game for your players, and then make a Database for you fleet, and then update to 1.04 and use those. Just some advice, let me know if you want some specific suggestions about what you can do to address the issue as I've got some ideas. Cheers, David __________________ LW

02-05-07, 03:20 PM	#35
fatty The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,448 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Actually now that I think, 90% of the people I've been playing with who refuse to upgrade also bear the Silent Sharks tag... :hmm: Anyway, cheers LuftWolf. If any of you guys are interested I would be happy to host weekly LWAMI games for us.

02-05-07, 03:23 PM	#37
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A lot of people have adopted the lwami mod because they recognize that the mod improves dramatically the game. To say a few, the french comunity on mille-sabords, the italian comunity on betasom and surely several virtual fleets. So you're not out of players.

02-05-07, 05:52 PM	#40
goldorak Admiral Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 2,320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Nexus7 : do you remember the state DW was in when it was shipped by Battlefront, afterwards by Strategy First and then Steam ? It was not a finished game in any sense of the word. We were basically betatesting a software. From the limited resources SCS invested in Dangerous Waters and the low sales numbers came the realization that to bring the game to "realistic" simulation levels would require 3-rd party modding. This in no way diminishes what SCS has done, and believe me when I say that they did a terrific job (multistation, integrated battlespace, etc...).