Something fishy here?

[Subwolf]

Originally Posted by _Seth_

(*easy _seth_, you dont...woooont to go there.....easy...breathe....inhale...exhale.....pu hhh..)

I would like to comment this thread, but since our last discussion didn't end very well I choose not to. I don't want to pull you into a minefield once again

[AG124]

The warning has now been posted on the main DftD page. As has been stated earlier in this thread, hopefully people will search for information about the game before deciding to buy it from some shady seller.

http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/

[AVGWarhawk]

Good show! Now I wonder if Ebay will consider what Apex is doing and have him post this on his bidding site for this game
:hmm:

[AVGWarhawk]

I responded to Apexsoftware via the wonderful Ebay email system with the link to the page showing the disclaimer that the developers posted today. I'll let you know if there is a response or not. The disclaimer is well written and matter of fact.

[Subwolf]

Here we go again. It stinks but you can't do much about it. Why? Because he's selling something that is already free. Let's put it this way, take your pc under your arm and put it on the street, someone will pick it up and sell it, can you blame him?
What this guy is doing and what X1 did is the same thing, and there is nothing the law can do here. This ends up a morality issue, and there is a lot of people out there who couldn't care less about that.

Originally Posted by Subwolf

Here we go again. It stinks but you can't do much about it. Why? Because he's selling something that is already free. Let's put it this way, take your pc under your arm and put it on the street, someone will pick it up and sell it, can you blame him?
What this guy is doing and what X1 did is the same thing, and there is nothing the law can do here. This ends up a morality issue, and there is a lot of people out there who couldn't care less about that.

Actually you can do something about it. It's called 'intellectual property' and 'tangible property', and copyright laws cover software. Just because something is being distributed free by the owner and developer doesn't make it legal for someone else to sell it and make money from that if they haven't been given permission to do so.

[AG124]

The problem here is that they do have permission do so. Although it can be illegal to sell freeware for a profit, in this case Apexsoftware is technically charging a fee to deliver open-source software, which is permissable (or so I understand). It is borderlining on profiting, but I think they can get away with it. The biggest issue against them is that they are misrepresenting the software for their own purposes - they are cldearly implying that it is a finished commercial product when it is a continuing open-source project. At no point do they state the truth - it may be a grey area but it is a very dark shade of grey. If they can't be legally stopped (and it is very possible that we cannot), then we should at least try to warn some potential victims.

[Subwolf]

Yes we got the copyright law, but it doesn't seem to cover freeware even when it is supposed to, there has been no reaction from the law against this.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone started to sell copies of GWX too after its release.

[Hybris]

Good to see I started something

[Reece]

If a freeware package is sold for CD/DVD costs, postage & Handling (with a small amount of profit for time spent copying & dud disks) I think it's a great idea!
I live in the country & dialup is all that is available so purchasing a disk would be great, What I would like to see is Subsim doing this for GWX & the small profit ofcourse going to Subsim for site costs! Hint Hint!

[Tachyon]

It looks like this "Apex Software" is selling some other freeware games as well.. VegaStrike, Flight Commander....and ironically they've got good feedback from their customers :P. Shame though, stealing someone else's work and selling it.

[Gogs]

Originally Posted by Reece

If a freeware package is sold for CD/DVD costs, postage & Handling (with a small amount of profit for time spent copying & dud disks) I think it's a great idea!
I live in the country & dialup is all that is available so purchasing a disk would be great, What I would like to see is Subsim doing this for GWX & the small profit ofcourse going to Subsim for site costs! Hint Hint!

There must be a fellow forum member in OZ who would be able to burn you a copy and mail it to you if you send a prepaid and addressed envelope? I'd offer myself but wrong country/continent/hemisphere. Now just tell me that that is ok and I haven't broken 50 rules by talking about it?!
G

[bigboywooly]

Originally Posted by Reece

If a freeware package is sold for CD/DVD costs, postage & Handling (with a small amount of profit for time spent copying & dud disks) I think it's a great idea!
I live in the country & dialup is all that is available so purchasing a disk would be great, What I would like to see is Subsim doing this for GWX & the small profit ofcourse going to Subsim for site costs! Hint Hint!

Well there are 2 dev team members in Aus so hint a bit louder :rotfl:

[squirrel777]

Originally Posted by Albrecht Von Hesse

Actually you can do something about it. It's called 'intellectual property' and 'tangible property', and copyright laws cover software. Just because something is being distributed free by the owner and developer doesn't make it legal for someone else to sell it and make money from that if they haven't been given permission to do so.

As I said previously, DftD being released under the GPL, it is perfectly legal to distribute it, even for a profit. Copyright laws apply, and in that case, the devs hold the copyright and explicitely (by releasing their software under the GPL) allow everybody to copy, distribute, modify, etc... THEIR software under the condition of the GPL (most importantly that any modification of the software must also be released under the GPL).
So apexsoftware indeed have the permission from the devs to distribute the software (as long as they follow the GPL).

Don't get me wrong, I don't try to defend apexsoftware in any way, and I think what they do is, from a moral point of view, at least dubious, and certainly dishonest. I'm just trying to clear the legal issue a bit, it's what "free software" (not freeware) is and what it implies.

But as the devs said, the product may be described in a misleading and false way, and this may be illegal.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by squirrel777

As I said previously, DftD being released under the GPL, it is perfectly legal to distribute it, even for a profit. Copyright laws apply, and in that case, the devs hold the copyright and explicitely (by releasing their software under the GPL) allow everybody to copy, distribute, modify, etc... THEIR software under the condition of the GPL (most importantly that any modification of the software must also be released under the GPL).
So apexsoftware indeed have the permission from the devs to distribute the software (as long as they follow the GPL).

Don't get me wrong, I don't try to defend apexsoftware in any way, and I think what they do is, from a moral point of view, at least dubious, and certainly dishonest. I'm just trying to clear the legal issue a bit, it's what "free software" (not freeware) is and what it implies.

But as the devs said, the product may be described in a misleading and false way, and this may be illegal.

Two problems:

1. You stated that the seller does not show it is uncompleted, free, misleading. True.
2. The developers stated the artwork is not free to sell.

Anyway, Apex claims they will contact the developers and ask if it is OK to sell their game. They also claim they send any profit to the developers of the game at the end of every quarter. Sure.....