The dark age is coming back

[Wim Libaers]

Originally Posted by Iceman

quantum physics....one thing science keeps learning time and time again is they don't know squat....what they think is true is not what they thought not...is...introducing creationisim into school...yes....give kids all the info they can get and let them make they're decision...to teach children that science is the only solution to all things is foolish and proven wrong by science itself.

So do we also make it mandatory to teach about the flying spaghetti monster?
http://www.venganza.org/ :p

Seriously, science has very strong claims to correctness. The fact that various scientific theories have been proven wrong (or at least incomplete), and that many other theories will also require changes in the future doesn't indicate that science is wrong. In fact, the opposite is true: every theory that has to be changed is a victory for science, because such changes happen because new discoveries are made that improve our knowledge about how things work, and get rid of old misconceptions. Science adapts to new findings, asks that theories have supporting evidence, and rejects what can be disproven. So it's very different from a mere belief. Science cannot claim complete knowledge and correctness, but it does strive towards it, adapting to new evidence. And it works pretty well, if you consider its achievements.

But if schools teach science not as this process of refinement, but merely as a disconnected set of facts that the student has to learn, those students could be forgiven for not noticing a difference.

Intelligent Design advocates something that you could call "the God of the gaps". Basically, whenever there is a gap in our understanding of the world, that means God must have been involved. So, before people understood electricity, it was explained as God being angry and destroying something, throwing a hammer, etc...

As science progressed, the number of gaps decreased, and with it the importance of this particular type of God. ID is just a bunch of people who feel the need to attack some domain of science to make people believe there are more gaps in our knowledge.

Of course, you are right that science is not the answer for everything. It offers knowledge, but people also need motivations for their actions, and such motivations are rather subjective.

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by Wim Libaers

So do we also make it mandatory to teach about the flying spaghetti monster?
http://www.venganza.org/ :p

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Let's add to this, that evangelicals are defying science claiming that the world is 10.000 years old instead of 4.500.000.000.
Because is written in their sacred book.

[VON_CAPO]

It is extremly remarkable, people who is free thinker come usually from Europe. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

(it is just an idea, an opinion)

[Hylander_1314]

When the economy is bad, or war is prevelent, religion usually increases in numbers. If it makes more poeple feel more secure, then so be it.

Don't forget though, that a lot of people came to America for religous reasons. And most of those in the early days were extremists by todays standards. Be thankful we don't have to deal with things like what went on in Salem Mass. back in the 1600's.

There is always this.

Adolf Hitler and Naziism are interpreted as an example of the varying forms of psychopathology that manifest and make clear the consequences of human rejection of the divine call to spiritual growth.

You know, I wasn't planning on getting into this but

It is extremly remarkable, people who is free thinker come usually from Europe. :hmm::hmm::hmm:

This statement was way over the top and brought me in. The implication is demeaning and grotesque in its arrogance.

[Spoon 11th]

google video: Turning muslim in texas.
Those people seemed happy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53144432289069

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Spoon 11th

google video: Turning muslim in texas.
Those people seemed happy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...53144432289069

Of course they're happy, they're in Texas

I had to laugh to hear that Texas drawl coming from behind the veil. :p

[Spoon 11th]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

I had to laugh to hear that Texas drawl coming from behind the veil. :p

Agreed. Allah akbar pronounced with american 'r' sounds pretty funny.

[Neutrino 123]

Originally Posted by Iceman

quantum physics....one thing science keeps learning time and time again is they don't know squat....what they think is true is not what they thought not...is...introducing creationisim into school...yes....give kids all the info they can get and let them make they're decision...to teach children that science is the only solution to all things is foolish and proven wrong by science itself.

Quantum physics is a most excellent theory and can predict many things! The Standard Model (though unable to explain certain extreme phenomena) is one of the best and most accurate theories ever! Alot of the confusion about this is because quantum mechanics is often counterintuitive to our generally Newtonian life, and thus is very hard to interpret. It is of course, readily understood...from a mathematical point of view after two years prior background in college-level math and physics.

Science itself has a VAST body of knowledge that has proven again and again to be accurate. Sure, the is a HUGE amount of things that science does not know, or can't (yet) explain, but I hardly think that that is a strike against science.

Of course, theories sometimes change. As humans learn more, science generally improves, finding more and more accurate explanations for things. Indeed, a fundamental postulate of science is to never truly "believe" anything, but many things can certainly be loosely accepted as true unless some significant contradictory evidence arises.


It would certainly be nice to give children all the information we have, every false theory could lead to new and correct ideas. However, that is simply impossible for anyone to learn unless you have thousands of the best hard drives in your brain for memory storage. Science class needs to be restricted to things that are accepted by, well, science. Right now, there amount of evidence for evolution and a ~4.6 billion year old Earth is simply extreme. The amount of evidence for intelligent design and a young Earth is negligible.


For some laughs, look at this fundementalist Christan website (for kidz!):
http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/

The atheist part is the best (scroll down a bit). Now I have to go back to being bitter and grumpy...

[Gizzmoe]

Originally Posted by Neutrino 123

The atheist part is the best (scroll down a bit).

Man, how ridiculous! :rotfl:

[Neutrino 123]

Gee Gizzmoe, you edited my text, but I was simultaneously editing out the white part as well...

[The Avon Lady]

I have posted this before and I'll gladly post it again:

Think Again: Charlie Darwin's Angels, by Jonathan Rosenblum, Jerusalem Post, January 12, 2006

[VON_CAPO]

From ---> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2005Jan23.html

Washingtonpost's Editorial

God and Darwin

Monday, January 24, 2005; Page A14

WITH THEIR SLICK Web sites, pseudo-academic conferences and savvy public relations, the proponents of "intelligent design" -- a "theory" that challenges the validity of Darwinian evolution -- are far more sophisticated than the creationists of yore.

Rather than attempt to prove that the world was created in six days, they operate simply by casting doubt on evolution, largely using the time-honored argument that intelligent life could not have come about by a random natural process and must have been the work of a single creator.

They do no experiments and do not publish in recognized scientific journals. Nevertheless, this new generation of anti-evolutionists, arguing that children have a "right to question" scientific truths, has had widespread success in undermining evolutionary theory.

Perhaps partly as a result, a startling 55 percent of Americans -- and 67 percent of those who voted for President Bush -- do not, according to a recent CBS poll, believe in evolution at all.

"According to a recent Gallup poll, about a third of Americans believe that the Bible is literally true. "

""Discussion of religion in a history or philosophy class is legitimate and appropriate. To teach intelligent design as science in public schools is a clear violation of the principle of separation of church and state.""

"" It also violates principles of common sense. In fact, the breadth and extent of the anti-evolutionary movement that has spread almost unnoticed across the country should force American politicians to think twice about how their public expressions of religious belief are beginning to affect education and science""

[VON_CAPO]

Originally Posted by Neutrino 123

For some laughs, look at this fundementalist Christan website (for kidz!):
http://objectiveministries.org/kidz/

The atheist part is the best (scroll down a bit). Now I have to go back to being bitter and grumpy...

Originally Posted by Gizzmoe

Man, how ridiculous!

This is what loving people teaches their childen
Do you notice the horns? :hmm:



EDIT: Additionally I found the following... :rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by VON_CAPO

Do you notice the horns? :hmm:

They're a mutation. :p

Can you be honest enough to point out how unscientific and filled with emotional rhetoric the Washington Post editiorial is itself?