Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged)

[em2nought]

Man, I lived on Crete for a year almost thirty years ago. I bet if I went back there now that nothing much has changed since then. What the heck did they spend so much money on, or did it all just disappear like charity aid to Haiti?

...and if I was German they'd really be pi$$ing me off. Lots of German tourists there when I was there, and not a single paratrooper in sight.

[nikimcbee]

What happens to to outstanding debt should Greece default

I hear Tante Merkel has pretty deep pockets.

[Respenus]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Can anyone answer the question I posed earlier? What happens to to outstanding debt should Greece default, drop out of the Euro and leave the EU?

That very much depends on the legal basis on which the debt was obtained. If I remember correctly, a lot of Greece's private debt is based on British law, but I could be wrong. There was also an article recently on what would happen to such debt in case of default, but for the life of me, I cannot find it right now.

With the majority of the debt being to the EU Member States (the first bailout), the EFSF/ESM (second bailout) and the IMF, however, the debate on what happens to the debt turns very nasty and complicated. And that's not counting Greece's TARGET 2 obligations (I have no idea how precisely they work, just that they are an extra burden to other EZ states) and the Emergency Liquidity Assistance, which must also be kept on the ECB's books and is probably not (fully) covered by the collateral given by Greek banks.

To summarize, no one know exactly, but it still exists and if Greece ever wanted to return to the credit markets in the future, it would have to pay it off with its new currency that would lose its value by the minute.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Respenus

That very much depends on the legal basis on which the debt was obtained. If I remember correctly, a lot of Greece's private debt is based on British law, but I could be wrong. There was also an article recently on what would happen to such debt in case of default, but for the life of me, I cannot find it right now.

With the majority of the debt being to the EU Member States (the first bailout), the EFSF/ESM (second bailout) and the IMF, however, the debate on what happens to the debt turns very nasty and complicated. And that's not counting Greece's TARGET 2 obligations (I have no idea how precisely they work, just that they are an extra burden to other EZ states) and the Emergency Liquidity Assistance, which must also be kept on the ECB's books and is probably not (fully) covered by the collateral given by Greek banks.

To summarize, no one know exactly, but it still exists and if Greece ever wanted to return to the credit markets in the future, it would have to pay it off with its new currency that would lose its value by the minute.

I appreciate your response....I'm a little better informed now

[Respenus]

For those interested, here's an article on EUobserver on how the IMF and the ECB may respond to Greece's non-payment of its debt to the IMF. The article, however, seems to be rather soft on what could/would happen, so things may get uglier than is suggested within.

@Jim,

I wish I could be of more help. I've been following the developments in Greece and gobbling up info and news like crazy and even I cannot fully make heads or tails of it all. So goodness knows what the ordinary citizen on the street can make of this latest debacle.

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by Respenus

So goodness knows what the ordinary citizen on the street can make of this latest debacle.

Listening to the talking heads that follow their own agendas.
Can't say we'd do the same.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I appreciate your response....I'm a little better informed now

Yeah, same here.

[Oberon]

I would be surprised if the referendum is a vote for yes, so I think that we have the real possibility of Grexit occurring within the month.
Next up is the Spanish general election occurring later this year, last I heard that Podemos has been doing well...


EDIT: One thing that has occurred to me, how is the Greek military these days? I don't ask for fear that there's going to be another tug of war over Cyprus, but ponderance whether, if the situation should deteriorate significantly within Greece following a Grexit, the Greek military might move in to restore order and form an emergency government. I don't think we're likely to see another Junta, the situation that lead to the '67 coup isn't applicable to 2015 Greece, but you do have to wonder how far Greece is going to fall when it exits before it starts to level off and head back up, and how far the military will let it go before they step in.

[em2nought]

So goes Puerto Rico http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0P91QA20150630

[ikalugin]

Has anyone looked into Russian default of 1998?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by ikalugin

Has anyone looked into Russian default of 1998?

Just read about it. But Greece doesn't have the energy production Russia has to jumpstart their economy. Early 2000's oil price rise boosted Russian economy.
Greece can only rely on Europe/US/Russia to get an economic boom so their tourists spent more

[Respenus]

A very good read on Der Spiegel International.

The Price of Five Years of Cowardice

[Jimbuna]

It's looking like a 'yes' vote in the referendum may bring Tsipras and his government down whilst a 'no' vote will plunge Greece into financial meltdown.

A rock and a hard place me thinks.

[Rockstar]

[Jimbuna]

This whole affair just gets sillier by the hour.

Greece has asked for a new bailout deal of Euro 29.1bn after stating it will default on the Eoro 1.6bn that is due to be paid this evening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33325886

I'm beginning to think Tsipras is playing games with other peoples money....games that the Greek population will end up paying for.

I don't dismiss the possibility of the EU granting the bailout either...such is the madness surrounding this whole affair.