Arizona Congresswoman Shot in the Head at Public Event

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

The rhetoric from the progressive in chief.

Obama: “They Bring a Knife…We Bring a Gun”
Obama to His Followers: “Get in Their Faces!”
Obama on ACORN Mobs: “I don’t want to quell anger. I think people are right to be angry! I’m angry!”
Obama to His Mercenary Army: “Hit Back Twice As Hard”
Obama on the private sector: “We talk to these folks… so I know whose ass to kick.“
Obama to voters: Republican victory would mean “hand to hand combat”
Obama to libearal supporters: “It’s time to Fight for it.”
Obama to Latino supporters: “Punish your enemies.”
Obama to democrats: “I’m itching for a fight.”

Now he wants everyone to tone down.

Great post of his past quotes.Oh he does not really want everyone to tone it down, just his opponents who have made his life difficult past couple years.Obama is a lot of things but he is not stupid, not brillant as some claim but he is certainly not stupid.Barry knows he has to give the appearance of trying to mend fences but he does not want that deep down because is well, a left wing radical at heart.Just wait for 2012 election and see what crazy things he will say.Really hope the American voters are not stupid enough to vote for him again, an Obama who does not have to run for reelection again is a dangerous creature, hopefully we will not find out.

[Bubblehead1980]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

I ask if you're capable of seeing things without classifying the world in terms of left vs. right, us vs. them, cowboys vs. indians, Red Sox vs. Yankees, my opinion vs. wrong....

...and you call me a lefty. I now have my answer.

I'll drop this whole thing, but I'll leave you with this - don't you find it troubling that some of the most level headed and well respected folks around here have chided you?

I am capable of seeing things outside the us vs them thing.However, we are talking politics, groups of people who share basic core values vs others who share different values.The call for bipartisanship is crap because it essentially means "sacrifice your values" to make you enemy happy, sorry but that is what has lead us to this situation our nation is in.I noticed that you usually seem to take left leaning positions, so yes called you a lefty.

No, I do not find it troubling that certain people on here have chided me.While I respect them and usually get along with them on here, does not make me wrong and them right.There has been countless times in history where the majority or certain well respected blah blah were seen as being right and later it turned out the other guy was right and they were wrong.This occurs on the grand stage of history as well as in everyday situations.I can think of several occasions in my life when everyone said I was wrong etc etc and later on I was proven to have been correct.I believe in standing up for what I know is right even when everyone is telling me I am wrong.A large part of the problem in our society is people do not stand up for what they believe in, they go along to get along.Now if there is evidence or logic etc to convince me I am not above changing my view on something.

Seems the big issue was they felt I was playing politics and honestly I was NOT.I was making a statement about how the political left in this country started exploiting the tragedy for political gain and I also said the right would most likely do the same if the situation were reversed.I also posted my educated opinion(I've studied the political left in this nation quite a bit, know they enemy sort of thing lol) on what they will try to gain out of this as far as gun control and limiting speech goes.They took offense to this and well that is not my problem.This is a discussion forum after all.I was not playing politics though, just discussing the possible ramifications of this tragedy and certain members did not care for that.

Beyond the progressive in chief's words how often have you seen the term 'teabagger' used on subsim by progressive members? If it wasn't used to inflame, why was it used? To degregate, embarass, show contempt, etc. Perhaps to show violent intent.

Lets not forget the word...'neocon'...

The socalled neocons were once liberal thinkers who realized their political thoughts were flawed and defected to the Republican party. The dislike of this defection has often been aired on this board.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

Beyond the progressive in chief's words how often have you seen the term 'teabagger' used on subsim by progressive members? If it wasn't used to inflame, why was it used? To degregate, embarass, show contempt, etc. Perhaps to show violent intent.

Violent intent how? That doesn't make any sense at all.

And given as much as you use the word "left", "leftist" or "Progressive" as a pejorative, I'd say you have no room to criticize anyone on this.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Violent intent how? That doesn't make any sense at all.

And given as much as you use the word "left", "leftist" or "Progressive" as a pejorative, I'd say you have no room to criticize anyone on this.

Those labels are completely neutral as violent terms, and you know it. You may even ascribe yourself to them. I use them as a non-violent description. The use of teabagger and neocon is used as an attack of those whom you disagree..

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by The Third Man

Those labels are completely neutral as violent terms, and you know it. You may even ascribe yourself to them. I use them as a non-violent description. The use of teabagger and neocon id used as an attack.

Calling something "neocon" is just as neutral (or not) as calling something "Progressive". Both can be used neutrally, both can be spat through clenched teeth as an insult. You can't say that one is always used neutrally while the other never is.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well anyway, nice to see Gifford is progressing well all things considered!

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Calling something "neocon" is just as neutral (or not) as calling something "Progressive". Both can be used neutrally, both can be spat through clenched teeth as an insult. You can't say that one is always used neutrally while the other never is.

Are you following me? PLZ stop that. Unless you are merely contributing to the conversation. I think that OK, and appropriate..

By all means mock me for any reason.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, it is great to see Gifford make great strides in her recovery.

[Gerald]

Yes, very good

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bubblehead1980

I am capable of seeing things outside the us vs them thing.However, we are talking politics, groups of people who share basic core values vs others who share different values.

Actually in this thread we were talking about a tragedy. You chose to bring politics into it, along with several others. You say you are capable of seeing things outside of "us vs them", but every post you ever make on any thread in GT is first and formost a political attack. Your actual words put the lie to your claims.

[breadcatcher101]

I find it bad taste to bring politics into this shooting.

All the warning signs--we should have known, bla bla, some blaming Palin--oh come on! Really.

What about the ones who killed in a like methods who were always very meek and kind-hearted, "would never hurt a fly" types?

In short, you never know, but for every killing like this the other millions of gun owners that day did not kill, very responsible people.

More lives have been saved by defensive actions than by the few who die at the hands of thugs.

I speak from experience, a firearm saved my wife's and my life once. Four thugs against the two of us. They were so messed up they didn't even notice the 45 in my hand. After I was struck with a 2x2 upside the head I fired once, downing him and the others hauled butt.

A firearm is a simple tool like the human hand. It can be used to caress, to show tenderness, or balled into a fist used to inflict pain.

I feel for the dead, but am glad to hear of the congresswomans recovery.

[Aramike]

A suggestion? Those of us wishing to discuss the tragedy without speculation, politics, etc. simply do so and ignore those who wish to insert their agenda.

I, for one, can't recall a day in which I haven't had Giffords and her family in my thoughts as far as hoping for a speedy recovery. I honestly think often of her husband and cannot imagine the depths of his despair to have that which is the most important fixture in his life yank towards the brink for no reason other than the unaided mental dereliction of a random man who became obsessed.

Furthermore I mourn for a little girl who's birthday was marred with one of our nation's greatest tragedies and who ultimately became a symbol of how fragile and precious life really is.

Senseless violence can strike anyone at any time. As logical creatures we naturally attempt to apply logic and causality to it. But in that we forget that sometimes things happen with explainations we cannot logically comprehend, because the very act is illogical.

Human sense does not apply to the senseless. While all things are causally related, human social structures and behaviors, within the spectrum of human reasoning, do not necessarily follow that rule.

When it is all said and done, hopefully if you learn one lesson it is this: We all have a choice to make. It's the choice between being able to rise above our opinions, political dispensations, social passions, etc, and acknowledging and uniting within tragedy, or regressing to such opinions and passions in an attempt to explain it away.

Who do you want to be?

[Hottentot]

At least the left in this thread had decency to quit the sermons when they were asked to stop. Seriously, I'm starting to believe that my previous sarcastic comment is actually some sort of sad reality to the select few people in- and outside this thread.

[Gerald]

As Steve has said, so is this thread about a tragedy which has hit, Gifford her family and others who have been injured, and those who died after a madman had totally tracked out, let it stay THERE, and not be drawn into other political angles and arguments that do not belong here, and in some cases, the frontier of personal attacks which is mediated can be read if you look closely at the content of the thread, and this, of course, all GT's threads on this forum, show respect by what you have to intend to post.