UK Politics Thread part II

[MGR1]

I think it's becoming pretty obvious that the UK of GB and NI must be the only Nation in Western Europe who's citizens and elected representatives aren't even sure whether or not it should exist.

It would help, I suppose, if Britishness could be defined as something more than Englishness, Scottishness, Welshness or Northern Irishness under a different label.

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-63727562

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The Scottish government cannot hold an independence referendum without the UK government's consent, the Supreme Court has ruled.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-63727562

What if the Scottish People say to London - Go and fly a kite we are going to implement the referendum, whether you like it or not ?
What can London do ?

I don't think SNP would do this-It's a thought based on the fact that SNP and their leader is so eager to become independent from London(UK)

Markus

[Jimbuna]

The highest court in the UK has given a ruling and so it ends until the poison dwarf can think up another strategy.

[MGR1]

What a great many people are not noticing is that, as this is a legal ruling, it's sets a precedent. It applies to ALL parts of the UK, with the exception of NI due to the GFA.

If England or Wales want to separate they still have to ask for permission from the UK Government. The gloaters seem to have missed that.

As for your question, Markus. The only parts of Scotland that could potentially blow up are the Clyde Valley and Greater Glasgow areas. Absolute worst case scenario would be The Troubles 2.0. Strip those areas out and have them as their own administrative area and Scotland goes a lot quieter.

Mike.

[Jimbuna]

Home Secretary Suella Braverman has admitted the UK government has failed to control its borders, blaming migrants and people smugglers for chaos at Kent's Manston processing centre.

However, she also said the Home Office needed to improve its efficiency.

MPs heard the home secretary had been warned four times keeping migrants at Manston may be breaking the law.

Previous reports suggested Ms Braverman was told failing to provide alternative accommodation was in breach of the law.

Ms Braverman told the Home Affairs Select Committee she would not comment on leaked documents.

However, she said she was aware from September Manston had a problem.

During the committee session, Ms Braverman struggled to reply to a question from Conservative MP Tim Loughton who asked what legal routes were available to refugees who are not part of the Ukraine, Hong Kong or Afghanistan relocation schemes.

"If you are able to get to the UK, you're able to put in an application for asylum," said Ms Braverman.

Mr Loughton responded that for some refugees, illegal entry was the only way to get to the UK.

"I think the point is that there's a shortage of safe and legal routes other than for specific groups of people," he said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63730054

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

What if the Scottish People say to London - Go and fly a kite we are going to implement the referendum, whether you like it or not ? [...] Markus

Maybe England should think about its medieval class system and ruling the UK the way it does. Would probably remove some friction.

[Jimbuna]

UK net migration hit 504,000 in the year to June - the highest figure ever recorded, The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimates.

The rise is driven by people arriving legally from outside the EU and the resumption of post-pandemic travel.

Reception of Afghan and Ukrainian refugees and people from Hong Kong are other factors.

The government has promised to cut net migration - the difference between the numbers entering and leaving the UK.

Today's figures will intensify debates over the role of overseas workers into the UK economy and wider labour market - weeks after Home Secretary Suella Braverman said she wanted to resurrect a repeatedly missed government target to reduce net migration to below 100,000.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63743259

[Jimbuna]

Wendy Morton: I’ll never forget chaotic vote that sank Liz Truss

By Joshua Nevett
BBC Politics

Former chief whip Wendy Morton handed in her resignation to Liz Truss after a chaotic vote that eventually led to the then-PM's downfall, she has revealed.

Ms Truss refused to accept Ms Morton's resignation, as she battled to hold her government together.

But the PM stepped down the following day, when it became clear she had lost the confidence of her MPs.

It "was one of those nights that I will probably never forget", Ms Morton told the BBC's Politics Live.

As chief whip, she was tasked with ensuring Tory MPs voted with the government, but many had refused to do so on the evening of 19 October because they opposed Ms Truss's policy on fracking.

MPs had been told it amounted to a confidence vote in the government in an effort to get them in line.

"That's why I took the stance that I did, as chief whip," Ms Morton said. "We were expecting colleagues to be in the lobby with us."

But there was confusion over whether it really was a confidence vote and the disarray that followed, including claims Tory MPs were being bullied by ministers into backing the government, proved to be the beginning of the end for Ms Truss's short-lived premiership.

"You can see what ensued, which was chaos," Ms Morton said.

Ms Morton - who was a key political ally of Ms Truss - said she had since "spent a lot of time reflecting on" the vote in October. She confirmed that it had been a confidence vote.

In her first TV interview about the events of that night, Ms Morton said she resigned as chief whip "on the basis that No 10 were interfering" in the vote.

"I feel so strongly about the integrity of the chief whip and the red lines that I have," Ms Morton said. "But the prime minister would not accept my resignation so I continued."

She said her conversation with Ms Truss was "robust but it was respectful", adding: "I have spoken to her since."

"We had coffee with her just the other week," Ms Morton said.

Ms Truss's premiership unravelled within 24 hours of the fateful vote, as a groundswell of Conservative MPs urged her to stand down.

Sir Graham Brady - the chairman of the 1922 committee of backbench Tory MPs - told the BBC he had decided to call Downing Street to tell Ms Truss her position was "unsustainable" following the "utter chaos" of the vote.

Confusion reigned after Labour brought a vote on whether MPs should get a say on the government's fracking plans.

Conservative MPs were initially told the vote would be treated as a test of loyalty to the government - a motion of confidence - and if they did not oppose the Labour plan they could get kicked out of the parliamentary party.

Tory whips, who are responsible for discipline in the parliamentary party, ordered their MPs to vote against the motion.

But then, just minutes before the vote, climate minister Graham Stuart rowed back on this at the despatch box, where he suggested it was not a vote of confidence.

Jacob Rees-Mogg - who was business secretary at the time - blamed the confusion on "a junior official at 10 Downing Street [who] sent a message through to the front bench that it was not a vote of confidence and nobody else was aware of that".

Chaotic scenes in the voting lobby followed, as whips tried to get Tory MPs to oppose the Labour motion.

Labour MP Chris Bryant said what he saw was "clear bullying", and House of Commons Speaker Sir Lindsay Hoyle ordered an investigation into the incident.

Mr Hoyle said while "the atmosphere was tense", there was no evidence "of any bullying or undue influence placed on other members".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-63746602

[Jimbuna]

Rishi Sunak: Golden era of UK-China relations is over

Rishi Sunak has said the so-called "golden era" of relations with China is over, as he vowed to "evolve" the UK's stance towards the country.

In his first foreign policy speech, Mr Sunak said the closer economic ties of the previous decade had been "naïve".

The prime minister said the UK had to replace wishful thinking with "robust pragmatism" towards competitors.

But he warned against "Cold War rhetoric", adding that China's global significance could not be ignored.

Mr Sunak has faced pressure from Tory backbenchers to toughen the UK's stance on China since he took over as prime minister last month.

His speech, at the Lord Mayor's Banquet in London, comes after protests in China over the weekend against the country's strict Covid lockdown laws.

Police have made several arrests, and a BBC journalist was detained while covering a protest in Shanghai on Sunday. He was beaten and kicked by the police during his arrest and held for several hours before being released.

Mr Sunak told the audience of business leaders and foreign policy experts that, in the face of the protests, China had "chosen to crack down further, including by assaulting a BBC journalist".

"We recognise China poses a systemic challenge to our values and interests, a challenge that grows more acute as it moves towards even greater authoritarianism," he said.

He added that the "golden era" of UK-China relations was "over", along with the "naïve idea" that more trade with the West would lead to Chinese political reform.

The phrase "golden era" is associated with closer economic ties under former Prime Minister David Cameron - but relations between London and Beijing have since deteriorated.

However, Mr Sunak stressed that "we cannot simply ignore China's significance in world affairs - to global economic stability or issues like climate change".

He added that the UK would work with allies including the US, Canada, Australia, and Japan to "manage this sharpening competition, including with diplomacy and engagement".

"It means standing up to our competitors, not with grand rhetoric but with robust pragmatism," he added.

Mr Sunak and Chinese President Xi Jinping were set to meet for the first time at the G20 summit in Indonesia earlier this month, but the encounter was cancelled following a missile blast in Poland.

Mr Sunak's predecessor Liz Truss was reportedly planning to re-categorise China as a "threat" to the UK as part of a review of its foreign policy.

In his speech, Mr Sunak echoed the phrase used in the review - that China is a "systemic challenge". He said there would be more details of the review in the new year.

But the "robust pragmatism" line in the speech was criticised by former Conservative Party leader Iain Duncan Smith, who is one of a number of backbenchers pushing for a tougher line.

Reacting to a preview of the speech, he wrote in the Daily Express that China had become a "clear and present threat to us and our allies".

"I wonder if robust pragmatism now sounds more and more like appeasement," he added.

Labour's shadow foreign secretary David Lammy called the speech "thin as gruel", accusing the government of "flip-flopping its rhetoric on China".

Nigel Inkster, senior China advisor at foreign affairs think tank the International Institute for Strategic Studies, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme he did not think the China-UK golden age "was ever real and substantial".

He said: "It attempted to focus on economic relations with China while putting geopolitics to one side, and experience shows you simply can't do that.

"China in its present form is here to stay for the foreseeable future, and I think the Marxist-Leninist dialogue is only going to increase so we are going to have to learn to get used to this."

Elsewhere in his speech, Mr Sunak promised to continue support for Ukraine, adding: "We will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes."

He promised to "maintain or increase" British military aid to the country next year, and provide new air support to protect civilians and critical infrastructure.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-63787877

[Jimbuna]

Tory MPs urge PM to change law to ease migrant crisis

More than 50 Tory MPs have urged Prime Minister Rishi Sunak to alter "quirks" in modern slavery laws to make it easier to send some migrants home.

The letter, arranged by former Brexit Secretary David Davis, demands those travelling from "safe countries", such as Albania, be returned more quickly.

The MPs maintain a "simple" change in the law could ease the current crisis.

A Home Office source said Home Secretary Suella Braverman was "working flat out" to solve the issue.

The source said Ms Braverman and Mr Sunak were working "to bring in reforms to help stem the flow of migrants across the Channel".

More than 40,000 people have crossed in small boats from France so far this year.

In the letter, Tories describe the crossings as a "Gordian Knot that needs cutting with a simple policy".

The signatories argue that a provision in current law prevents the government from returning a person who says they are a victim of modern slavery to their original home.

"If they have really been taken against their will, then they could not reasonably object to being returned to their own homes," the letter said.

"The quirks in our modern slavery laws that prevent this are clearly in defiance of the aims of that law and should be removed."

MPs, including former cabinet ministers Dr Liam Fox and Esther McVey, and veteran backbenchers Sir Peter Bottomley and Sir Graham Brady, are among the 50-strong body of Conservative politicians calling for the change.

They argue this "straightforward and legally workable way of addressing the crisis" would be a "very strong deterrent" to those who might be planning to make the trip across the Channel.

Mr Davis said the number of people from safe countries like Albania claiming asylum in the UK was "paralysing the whole system".

"I want to protect the asylum system for people who really need it," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

The large majority of migrants claim asylum on arrival in the UK and many are housed in hotels while awaiting the outcome of their applications, which are often subject to delay.

Speaking last week, Ms Braverman admitted the UK government has failed to control its borders, blaming migrants and people smugglers for recent chaos at Kent's Manston processing centre.

Thousands of migrants were placed in tents at the centre during the autumn months, leading to overcrowding and outbreaks of disease.

Everyone staying at the temporary site has since been placed in alternative accommodation, according to the Home Office.

Last month, MPs from the Home Affairs Committee heard how the UK was spending about £7m a day on hotels to house asylum seekers.

A government spokeswoman said: "We have made clear that there is no one single solution to stop the increase in dangerous crossings.

"We have also made clear that we will continue to use every tool at our disposal to deter illegal migration.

"We are expediting the removal of individuals by agreeing tailored bilateral returns agreements with partners like Albania, elevating it to a key priority for our foreign policy."
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63775337

[Jimbuna]

EU member state blasts Brussels for wanting Brexit revenge rather than helping Europeans

Amajor fracture has opened in the EU over Ursula von der Leyen's handling of post-Brexit talks with Britain as a member state has accused of of harming Europe because of a desire for "Brexit revenge". Hungarian foreign minister Péter Szijjártó hit out at Brussels after he held his first talks with James Cleverly since he became foreign secretary in September. The two met for talks in London after speaking at a conference on violence against women in conflict organised by the Foreign Office as Mr Cleverly made his first ally within the EU.

Speaking exclusively to Express.co.uk in a rare newspaper interview following his discussions with Mr Cleverly, the Hungarian foreign minister said he believed too many people in Brussels are motivated by a desire for "Brexit revenge."

Mr Szijjártó, who also discussed his country's different position on Ukraine with Mr Cleverly, made it clear that Hungary is on Britain's side regarding problematic talks on fixing the Northern Ireland protocol and other issues going forward.

The Hungarian minister joked that he is now on his sixth UK counterpart since taking office in 2014.

He said: "We attach a lot of significance to the debates between London and Brussels. They should be settled in a way that is based on mutual respect and which could make possible to have rational and effective cooperation.

"What the European Union should push for now is to try to minimise the loss caused by Brexit.

"But instead of a rational and mutual respect approach what we are seeing now is Brussles is making steps which bring us further away not closer."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...2ad867b6f17a3b

[Gorpet]

Well, After Volodymyr sent his wife,begging because he can't leave his bunker or his country to Britain.Will Rishi Sunak become the next Winston and lead Britain in a future Blitz of Hypersonic Nuclear Missiles raining down on Londen again. It would seem we have the Peter Principle in effect all across the Planet.
When the Politicians ride on the back of their voters and get Rich. When the same voters start asking tough questions.
History repeats itself.There has to be a war, and someone has to be the ORC!
This time because there is no one else it has to be the Russians. Hell you cant start it with the Chinese you out sourced your country's manufacturing to them. And your citizens didn't know that until a monkey got sliced and diced at a wet market in China.Anyway Rishi Sunak will stand with the Volodymyr.

Do you really think young Ukraine soldiers who have been on the battlefield and away from their women for months and could die at any time are not capable of raping a women? What's the old Kissinger saying sleeping with Washington Elites will be fatal. Keir Starmer and the left,hell they don't have any answers other than VOTE US IN and afterwards they will tell you the Other Party left things in such a shambles it will take 20 yrs.And most of you will be dead.If the MAGIC MUSHROOM in the sky doesn't appear.And if it does all of you will be Dead. I wonder how long after the first of the year the UK will be the UK

[Gorpet]

Here's something i told my son about voting here in America.If your 20 and this person gets elected twice. Doesn't matter what party he represents you will be 8 yrs older. So now at 28 has this President and his Party made your life better or not.So now we have another President with a different party and a new way they believe in. So 1 term your 32 2 term your 36. And if it changes hands again for another 8 years you can end up being 44 yrs old. Now that your youth is almost gone.What did those two parties do for you.You worked your ass off and paid your taxes stayed out of their jails.Just to find out you really didn't have to work at all.You could have been the Peaky Blinder.Everyone else is getting it for free. Yea i know it's a TV show but it's the future if the Magic Mushroom of NATO doesn't show up.

[Jimbuna]

Brexit has added £210 to the average household food bill in the two years to the end of 2021, new research suggests.

Academics at the London School of Economics found that the cost of food imported from Europe went up because of extra red tape and checks.

It said that the changes for items going across the border had pushed food prices up by 6% to £5.84bn overall.

Price rises hit poorest households hardest because they spend more of their pay packets on food, it added.

But it noted one benefit seen since Brexit was reduced competition for food producers in Britain.

The BBC has contacted the Department for International Trade for comment.

Researchers at its Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) looked at data tracking the flow of trade and prices of food products between the UK and the European Union (EU) to work out how shoppers were being affected by the UK's exit.

Their calculations sought to isolate the effects of Brexit and separate them out from other supply chain issues that caused disruption during the pandemic.

It blamed the increase in food prices on a rise in "non-tariff barriers" on trade between the UK and the EU, which include things like new customs checks at the borders, new paperwork requirements and broader measures affecting the movement of animals and plants.

Although the extra checks didn't come into force until 2021, one of its co-authors Nikhil Datta said it was likely firms made "anticipatory" changes around the "hard Brexit" pursued by previous Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

Mr Datta added that these non-tariff barriers should be a "first-order concern" for politicians and policymakers.

Its paper also looked at costs involved with setting up for new systems, such as hiring specialist staff to be able to manage the trade of products that are subject to more checks.

The CEP suggested that between 50% and 88% of price rises seen by these EU exporters and UK importers were being passed on to customers.

Inflation, which tracks how prices rise over time, has hit its highest rate in 40 years.

Richard Davies, a professor at the University of Bristol and co-author of the study, said: "Many factors, affecting both supply and demand for goods and services, are involved. One factor in this high inflation has been the rise in non-tariff barriers for trade with the EU.

"In leaving the EU, the UK swapped a deep trade relationship with few impediments to trade for one where a wide range of checks, forms and steps are required before goods can cross the border," he added.

The report says that immediately after the December 2019 general election, food prices from the EU spiked as businesses reliant on products and ingredients from the bloc started to pass costs on.

The price rises varied according to the type of product, but was generally higher for those products like meat with lots of extra paperwork and checks required, whereas those for vegetables like onions, carrots and broccoli, which might also depend on seasonal availability, was lower.

It said overall that less well-off households had seen bigger price rises as a result, due to the fact they spend a higher proportion of their income.

It suggested that one benefit seen from Brexit was that food producers in the UK now faced less competition from farmers and producers in Europe.

But it added that overall the gain seen was outstripped by the losses seen by shoppers by more than £1bn.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63821133