US Politics Thread 2021-24

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Interesting 'cause I have also learned that USA is getting more and more Polarized.

NO Trump is not behind it-He was the beacon that shine brightly on this deep canyon.

Markus

Look at how the article talks about Antifa. THEY are worried about right wing groups attempting a coup? That's like horse thieves being worried about jacking.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by August

Look at how the article talks about Antifa. THEY are worried about right wing groups attempting a coup? That's like horse thieves being worried about jacking.

This seems to be a problem with some of our European members here. They are going to the wrong sources for an opinion on American politics. The internet is a wonderful thing. This site would be a good start. Opinions from both the left and right on most topics that are from American news sources and opinion makers.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by August

Look at how the article talks about Antifa. THEY are worried about right wing groups attempting a coup? That's like horse thieves being worried about jacking.

I went back and made a search for the word Antifa.

Antifa sees danger in another Trump candidacy

Antifa, on the other hand, certainly believes that these militias have the potential for a coup. The storming of the Capitol showed that, says a representative of Rose City Antifa, the offshoot of the far-left movement in Portland, Oregon. He only wants to speak anonymously so that "neither right-wing extremists nor the state can target individual members of the group."

However, the man sees the immediate danger in Trump's involvement in the next presidential election. "If he wins, there would likely be a further radicalization of Republicans and more cavalier public activity by the far-right. If he loses, there would be underground 'vendettas' and an attempt at destabilization."

It comes as no surprise for me a leftist would always see the rightist as a danger to the state and viceversa. What none them can't see is that both side is dangerous to the state.

In an article some month ago-It was said that authorities fear what would happen if Trump runs for office and lose- His harden followers would not accept this-said the article.

I'll try to find it.

Edit
Found it

Millions of Angry, Armed Americans Stand Ready to Seize Power If Trump Loses in 2024

https://www.newsweek.com/2021/12/31/...4-1660953.html

End edit

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by u crank

This seems to be a problem with some of our European members here. They are going to the wrong sources for an opinion on American politics. The internet is a wonderful thing. This site would be a good start. Opinions from both the left and right on most topics that are from American news sources and opinion makers.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com

FYI, the article did not include just one cherry you could pick, but many. All made in America, if you haven't noticed.




"The very concept of objective truth is fading out of the world. Lies will pass into history." - George Orwell

[mapuc]

May the people even his followers respect this outcome if it should happen.

If Trump gets convicted of the Espionage Act, he faces a 10-year prison sentence, legal analyst says

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum....com&r=US&IR=T

Markus

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Skybird

FYI, the article did not include just one cherry you could pick, but many. All made in America, if you haven't noticed.

I try not to judge a book by its cover so I began to read what you posted. When I got to the part about Antifa I had to stop. These people, Antifa are the exact opposite of anti Fascists. They are the Fascists who use violent intimidation against their political enemies and the press. And if you don't know that you are not paying attention to this group's activities in America. Their political and social opinions need to be judged on those grounds.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by mapuc

May the people even his followers respect this outcome if it should happen.



https://www.businessinsider.com/trum....com&r=US&IR=T

Markus

that made me laugh...

That article is just click bait for anti-trumpers.

Even if Trump was found guilty and that is a big if, the most he would get is a fine.

An ex-President will never be sent to jail merely for retaining classified documents.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

that made me laugh...

That article is just click bait for anti-trumpers.

Even if Trump was found guilty and that is a big if, the most he would get is a fine.

An ex-President will never be sent to jail merely for retaining classified documents.

1. I found this article through a Danish article about the same.
2. I couldn't care less about your President-Former or present-I'm not an american and can therefore not vote there. What I care for is your society and all of you my American friends.
3. I didn't know that-The articles didn't mentioned it.
4. Since we are discussing this issue with Trump I thought I would post here in our US-Politic thread.

Markus

[Bilge_Rat]

Interesting, so apparently Obama did have classified documents in his possession until at least 2018, as shown in a letter the Obama Foundation sent to NARA. In the letter, the Foundation is negotiating with NARa on how to transfer documents to NARA's control:

In 2016, before President Obama left office, he rented a private facility in Hoffman Estates to serve as a storage place for his presidential papers, and by October of 2016, while he was still in office, shipments of artifacts from his presidency began arriving at the suburban Chicago storage facility. A year later, the Chicago Tribune reported that after the National Archives and Records Administration had worked with the former Democrat president to ship his documents to the Chicago suburb, where they were stored and kept secured, Obama decided not to retain a paper archive at his presidential museum, “meaning they would be shipped back to Washington once a decision [was] made on where to keep them permanently.”

The Obama documents — both classified and unclassified — remained in Hoffman Estates well into 2018, as evidenced by a letter of intent executed between Ferriero on behalf of the National Archives Trust Fund and the Obama Foundation. Among other things, the letter of intent memorialized the Obama Foundation’s agreement to “transfer up to three million three hundred thousand dollars ($3,300,000) to the National Archives Trust Fund (NATF) to support the move of classified and unclassified Obama Presidential records and artifacts from Hoffman Estates to NARA-controlled facilities that conform to the agency’s archival storage standards for such records and artifacts.”

The only difference between the Hoffman Estates’ storage of the Obama presidential records that began in 2016 and the Mar-a-Lago storage of Trump’s presidential records was that the documents were technically within the possession of NARA. But even though the documents were legally the property of NARA, Obama still had the right to access the records, including the classified documents.

So if upon receiving the 15 boxes of documents back from Trump, NARA had legitimate concerns about the security of Mar-a-Lago — a strange worry to hold given that the Secret Service must safeguard the location to protect Trump and his family — a bureaucracy committed to the country and safeguarding her artifacts would have worked to arrange for the documents to be preserved under the auspices of NARA control in a location chosen by Trump, as it had done with Obama.

https://thefederalist.com/2022/08/15...-like-spygate/

However in Obama's case, NARA negotiated the transfer of the documents while in Trump's case, they had the DOJ launch a criminal investigation.

There better be a real "smoking gun" in the documents the FBI seized, otherwise this is looking more and more like a dirty political move.

[mapuc]

Honestly I don't think so...however one can not overrule the fact it has or is a political move to prevent Trump from running for office.

It's here I fear the outcome IF he get a verdict.

Markus

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

Interesting, so apparently Obama did have classified documents in his possession until at least 2018, as shown in a letter the Obama Foundation sent to NARA. In the letter, the Foundation is negotiating with NARa on how to transfer documents to NARA's control:

He didn't. The documents were kept in Hoffman Estates by the NARA, since it was planned that the Barack Obama Presidential Library would be located there. NARA had the documents, not Obama.


Here's NARA's statement from August 12:

The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.

[Jeff-Groves]

It just blows my mind that people in Findland are so way up on my lists.
Dowly in this thread is amazing.
2 other Guys doing AirGun work I follow!

Is it the snow?

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by Jeff-Groves

Is it the snow?

Yes, it must be the cocai snow.

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

May the people even his followers respect this outcome if it should happen.



https://www.businessinsider.com/trum....com&r=US&IR=T

Markus

Hey if he's convicted of murder he's facing 20 year to life!

[mapuc]

Danish Ekstra Bladet wrote:

split among republicans
Republicans are split in their support for Trump after the raid on Mar-a-Lago, US media report. Moderate Republicans fear for what the FBI has found

In the first few days after the controversial raid, there was no end to the bombast in the Trump world.

- This is war, for example, said the conservative web media The Gateway Pundit.

Marjorie Taylor Greene, a highly controversial Republican congresswoman, called for the attorney general to be impeached and for cuts to the FBI's budget.

While a Republican senator compared the FBI to the Gestapo.

But according to Monday's front page of the New York Times, 'deep cracks' have appeared in the Republican bulwark against the FBI and support for Donald Trump. Some Republican governors have been outspoken in their criticism of the party's attacks on the FBI.

- That worries me a lot. It's outrageous rhetoric," Maryland Republican Governor Larry Hogan told ABC News on Sunday.

- These are Republicans who have previously been small-minded or outright opposed to Trump.

- They represent a segment of Republican politicians who don't necessarily back Trump anymore. There have been more of them since the storm in Congress

Republicans must support the FBI
Several moderate Republicans were in the press Sunday with somewhat more muted reports than we've heard in recent days.

- If Republicans want to be the party that supports law enforcement, that includes supporting the FBI, said Arkansas Republican Governor Asa Hutchinson.

The Mar-a-Lago raid took place on Monday 08 August. The FBI was looking for documents belonging to state archives. Documents that may not be in Trump's possession.

Attorney General Merrick Garland had even approved asking a judge for the search warrant. The judge found that there was "probable cause" - presumed suspicion - for possible crimes.

The crimes involved possible breaches of the Espionage Act, obstruction of justice and illegal handling of government documents.

Among other things, the FBI found several top-secret documents that may contain information about US national security. According to the Washington Post newspaper, the documents included information on nuclear weapons.

A gunman was shot and killed by police on Thursday after trying to break into an FBI building in Ohio. The FBI has warned of a marked increase in threats against its employees since they raided Trump's home.

Varying explanations
According to the New York Times, moderate Republicans fear that more incriminating evidence may come out as the background to the raid emerges. Trump and his allies' many shifting explanations should also give the middle-seeking Republicans sweat on their brows.

First, the former president said he was cooperating with the FBI, which had illegally raided his home. But when it turned out they had found 11 boxes of classified material, Trump claimed the FBI had planted evidence at Mar-a-Lago.

A conspiracy theory that has since been advanced by both Republican politicians and conservative media.

According to the New York Times, a Trump lawyer had already signed off in June that all documents had been returned.

Trump's office has argued that Trump had released the confidential documents for publication and that the president always has the right to do so. Which is strongly disputed by legal experts.

On Sunday, the Trump world changed its argument again. Perhaps the documents were previously classified. But they probably aren't anymore, it said.

Despite the recent rifts among some Republicans, many analysts believe Trump has still won on the FBI's controversial search. He can play the victim card and say that "the deep state" is behind a plot against him.

Several US commentators have speculated that Trump will use it as a springboard to announce he is running for president in 2024.

- Trump has maintained the position of strength internally within the party and fired up loyal supporters. But I don't think Trump has brought new voters into the fold and he still needs to.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Markus