Here we go again-Ukraine once again pt2

[mapuc]

^ Getting final accept to hit targets in Russia....however....



Markus

[mapuc]

Good question



And of course Russia is claiming that these F16 will be carrying


Markus

[Jimbuna]

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by mapuc

^ Getting final accept to hit targets in Russia....however....



Markus

A brief summary of the war logic so far.



Defend yourself. But until recently - don'T strike the enemy in his preparation and rest space.

Defend yourself. But don't strike Russian refineries to hurt his oil supply and our gasoline porices and my eleciton chances.
Defend yourself but dont demand to get enough of what you need to do so.
Defend yourself, but dont strikem the neemy'S military production facilities.
Defend yourself, but don't hinder the enemy's long range detection capabilities against your drones.
Defend yourself, but dont strike Kerch bridge before the Russians have established alternative supply liones

Defend yourseklf, but dont strike your enemy so hard that he will no longer win.

Defend yourself, but dont defend yourself too much. Better bleed than successfully deter the enemy, if need be.



I have stopped long time ago trying to ake sens eof Wetsenr logic when all exprience witg Russia since WW2 shows that the Russians respect and react to only one thing: equal if not superior force and the bitter detemrination to use it. Only then there was and is the chance that Russia gives space.


What they think in most Western capitals, makes me sick. Its all fear-driven - and fear alone is the worst of all advisors. How the war goes shows the outcome of fear as a strategy. Plus the Republican sabotage - that could be seen by future historians as the single most influential factor that has costed the Ukraine to reach an outcome fo this war at its conditions.



The Ukrainians desperately need everything they can get, so they cannot tell us openly what they think of us. They cannot afford this sort of honesty. But I doubt that behind their polite faces they feel nothing but thankfulness.



They are fighting OUR future war so that we must not fight it. They die for OUR illusion of peace and freedom. And we bind them their hands on their back and refuse them the weapons they need.



We are closer to Russian than Ukrainian interests, as a matter of fact - our own strategic longterm interests not even mentioned.



The only thing Sovjet/Russian "diplomacy" has ever reported and reacted to, was superior force and iron determination.



Our governments are made of wine gums - they are soft and give way when you bite them, and when you spit on them, they slowly dissolve.

[Jimbuna]

Zelensky criticises Biden for not doing enough

Volodymyr Zelensky has criticised Joe Biden, the US president, for not doing enough in allowing US weapons to be fired into Russia as Ukraine faces the threat of a renewed invasion.

The Ukrainian president thanked Mr Biden for giving Kyiv permission to strike inside Russian territory with American munitions but said restrictions - including on the use of long-range Atacms - should also be dropped.

In a rare rebuke of his US ally, he said: “Is that sufficient? No. Why? Because I have given you the example of airfields from which Russia is permanently firing, in calm, knowing that Ukraine will not fire back because it has no corresponding systems and no permissions.”

After weeks of pressure, Mr Biden gave permission for Ukraine to use American missiles, such as Himars, to fire across the border north of Kharkiv, where Russian forces are massing. But he blocked Ukraine from using the more advanced Atacms systems.
Mr Zelensky said his government was seeking the green light to hit Russian military airfields used on a daily basis to attack “purely civilian infrastructure – dams, energy grid, schools, universities”, as well as hospitals.

He added that Russia continued to use artillery, long-range fire, and some 300 weapons systems carrying tens of thousands of missiles on its side of the border to target the Ukrainian population.

“So they have these weapons there and they do not remove them because they know that Ukraine cannot target them with Western weaponry even if they fire against us,” he said.

The Ukrainian president made his comments at Asia’s top security summit in Singapore. He made a surprise visit this weekend to appeal to Asia and Pacific leaders to attend a June peace summit in Switzerland where he hopes to forge a path for the “just” ending of Russia’s war.

Mr Zelensky met with Lloyd Austin, the US defence secretary, as well as the leaders of Singapore, Timor Leste and Indonesia, but not with the Chinese delegation that was led by their defence minister Dong Jun.

Beijing has publicly criticised the Ukrainian peace initiative because Russia is not invited, and confirmed that it would not be attending as the arrangements for the meeting “falls short of China’s requirements”.

It was reported that Mr Zelensky had hoped to engage with the Chinese in Singapore. Instead, he accused China of being “an instrument in the hands of Putin”, claiming that the country was dispatching its diplomats at Russia’s behest to persuade countries to snub the summit.

“Regrettably, Russia using Chinese influence on the region, using Chinese diplomats also, does everything to disrupt this summit,” Mr Zelensky said.

Mr Zelensky said “with China’s support to Russia the war will last longer. That is bad for the whole world, and the policy of China – who declares that it supports territorial integrity and sovereignty and declares it officially. For them it is not good”.

He also echoed the US accusation that China has been providing military support to Russia, which Beijing denies. Washington has alleged that China’s export of dual-use goods to Moscow is bolstering its defence industrial base.

Mr Zelensky accused Beijing of undermining its pledges not to arm Russia, saying that “today, there are various signals from various intelligence services… that somehow, some way, something comes to Russia’s markets via China”.

China claims neutrality in the conflict while providing an economic lifeline to Russia, which is subject to international sanctions, and also as the two countries have stepped up their diplomatic partnership.

In a speech to the defence conference on Sunday morning, Mr Jun said China had been “promoting peace talks with a responsible attitude”.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...3080b208&ei=11

[Dargo]

UK intel: Russian regime’s demand for loyalty over skills on display in general’s arrest

Late last month, Russian authorities detained a former Russian army commander, Maj-Gen Ivan Popov, who voiced concerns about the country’s high military casualties in Ukraine on suspicion of committing large-scale fraud. He was dismissed as Russia’s 58th Combined Arms Army last year after criticizing the Russian military leadership. In its intelligence update, the British Defense Ministry says Popov, considered a competent commander, was likely arrested as a punitive measure for perceived disloyalty, likely to dismay Russian military personnel and signal to senior commanders that loyalty to the regime is valued above competence.

The Ministry wrote:

• On 21 May 2024, Russian media reported that General-Major Ivan Popov, former commander of the Russian 58th Combined Arms Army (CAA), had been arrested on charges of fraud and corruption related to the sale of military construction materials. Popov was dismissed from his post as commander of the 58th CAA (deployed to the Zaporizhzhia sector in Ukraine) in July 2023 after his private criticism about the competence of Russian defence leadership’s decisions relating to the conduct of the war were publicised. Popov subsequently criticised the decision to remove him publicly, describing it as “our senior commander hitting us from the rear, treacherously and ditty beheading the army at the most difficult and tense moment.”
• In it system where corrupfion itself is endemic, its punishment is more often it political tool than an attempt to enforce good governance. There is a long history of the Russian regime using corruption charges, real or invented, to remove or punish internal critics or those who have angered more powerful elite figures. It is likely Popov’s arrest is a demonstrative punishment for his perceived disloyalty to his superiors.
• As an army commander, Popov was generally regarded as highly competent and, according to Russian military commentators, was popular among Russian troops. His arrest is likely to further dismay Russian military personnel and reinforce to his peers in senior command positions that loyalty and obedience to the regime and one’s superiors is valued more highly than competence and charisma.

https://euromaidanpress.com/2024/06/...nerals-arrest/

[Rockstar]

Hey Markus remember the Russian propaganda video you posted where all of sources were actually from British tabloid news? Well there’s more divisive russian propaganda from more British tabloid news posted above.

Speaking like the typical European and already blaming the U.S. I swear they must put something in your water over there.

Speaking of not doing enough. Interesting comment from ‘Average Ukrainian 3af2245a’ concerning the article and especially the highlight below.

Average Ukrainian 3af2245a
"... Destroying this unity, undermining this spirit, destroys the only thing that keeps the army combat-ready..."

“A quote from the FSB instruction for Yermak and Zelenskyy.”

—————

Commanders are tourists, one of the most acute problems of the Armed Forces of Ukraine

14:43 02.06.2024

https://m.censor.net/ua/blogs/349257...anskogo_vyiska

The last year was marked by the cycle of appointments, reappointments of commanders of all levels, for some objective reasons, for subjective reasons, for reasons of personal profit, for reasons of nepotism, for reasons of personal dislike and others.

What is the trouble of this phenomenon for the Ukrainian army? But the elementary thing is that every commander of different levels today assumes that he is not here for long. And not for a long time, it means that you don't have to teach completely, because tomorrow you will be transferred somewhere without explanations and justifications, just "because such a decision".

If earlier, before this "pennel teaver", commanders were interested in building, staffing and providing their unit, now the better your unit, the higher the probability that someone "your" will be appointed to your place tomorrow, and you will be stuck in some "penalty" (where avatars and advers were dugs were dred for several years) or in the newly created one (he built, let him build this one). Commanders are often filmed for such "flights" of units, the cause of which was certainly not the commander's fault, and the next commander who comes to this place, assesses the reasons for removing the predecessor and lowers his hands, because he understands that the reasons that "lost" the predecessor will "lose" him (because they do not depend on him).

Familiar with many today's commanders who feel like tourists in positions, so they do not teach, do not sacrifice for the sake of the unit, perceive the unit as a rented apartment, from where they will have to move as soon as the owner wishes.

In conditions of chaotic transfers, appointments and withdrawals, not only commanders feel like tourists, but also their subordinates. Units from well-coordinated "families" turn into situational neighbors, whose further fate of being in the unit depends on what.

Does this affect the combat capability of units and the army as a whole? More than. The Ukrainian army is not an army of professional personnel military who win thanks to honed skills. This is an army of yesterday's civilians who win thanks to their spirit and unity. Destroying this unity, undermining this spirit, the only thing that keeps the army combat-ready is destroyed. And this order of things leads to the idea that this is not about victory and not about the defense capability of the State as a whole.

[Jimbuna]

[Rockstar]

The comments from ‘Average Ukrainian 3af2245a’ are again interesting. This isn’t Russian propaganda from British tabloid news either. It’s out of Ukraine written by Gennady Druzenko who is a lawyer, volunteer, co-founder and president of the PDMSH named after Mykola Pirogov.

Mr. Gennady disguised a simple thought under a mountain of words - under the power of green nits, Ukraine is waiting for an inevitable collapse - quote: "...this president and this government, simply untenable..." And Mr. Gennady offers to temporarily freeze the war so that power can be re-elen.
It's very good that Mr. Gennady did come to the conclusion that Zelenskyy and his ssewed green shay should be driven by three. The author's speed of thinking has not even passed five years.
But there is one issue regarding the freezing of the war - it will be necessary to persuade the Rashists to do so - like, wait, please, we will remove green **** here in Ukraine, put effective power and with new forces and ideas will start fighting with you again.
There is an opinion that the Rascists will not agree...

When will the war end?

https://censor.net/ua/blogs/3491687/...olom_peremovin

War in the modern world is the last possible policy option. You should fight when there is simply no other way out. When you refuse to hold a blow, you will get both war and shame, or rather, shameful occupation.
However, when fighting, it should always be remembered that war is for peace, not peace for war. Any wise and far-sighted statesman prefers to bring his country out of the war with the least losses and on the most acceptable terms.
The charismatic maximalist Napoleon eventually lost his war, although he won many battles. Pragmatic Mannerheim won his war, although he lost 11% of Finnish territory. However, he kept the Finnish state.
The picture that has been engraved in our heads since World War II, in which the war ends with a complete and unconditional surrender of the aggressor, is a historical exception, not a rule. The vast majority of wars ended at the negotiating table. And rarely, extremely rarely, the terms of peace were fair. Rather, they recorded a new balance of power on a certain frontier.
We have about six months to complete the current phase of the war with Russia. We need a pause in the wine no less, but probably more than Putin. Because I am deeply convinced that under this government, with such an ineffective organization of the state, with corrupt corruption by state bodies, with complete dependence on Western weapons and Western finance, in this context, Ukraine loses more from the continuation of the war than Russia.
A few examples are enough. Currently, the Russia produces artillery shells three times faster and four times cheaper compared to the United States and Europe, according to an analysis by consulting company Bain & Company. This year, Russia plans to produce 4.5 million artillery shells worth about $1,000 each, while the average cost of shells produced in Europe and the United States is about $4,000, although in some cases their cost can be more than $5,000 per unit.
And this does not include terrible CABs, the production of which is gaining momentum in Russia, and unguided air bombs, as well as cruise and ballistic missiles that destroy Ukrainian infrastructure in the deep rear.
The second example. According to the estimates of Volodymyr Omelchenko, Director of Energy Programs of the Razumkov Center, "today more than 70% of all electricity generation has been destroyed, damaged or occupied in Ukraine." And while we do not have and in the eepsy future, there is no envisaged an impenetrable air defense system that would guarantee that it will not be destroyed anymore. How we will survive next winter is an open question.
Another example. "More than 25% of children currently in Ukraine are deprived of the opportunity to fully study due to hostilities and regular rocket attacks by Russia," according to the Institute of Educational Analytics. Back in 2021, UN head Antonio Guterres warned that the transition of online learning caused by the pandemic could turn into a "whole generation disaster". For Ukraine, where children have been deprived of normal offline learning at desks for four years, this disaster, unfortunately, has already become a fait accompli.
We really fight like lions. Our defenders work real miracles at the front. But the long war is always about arithmetic, not heroism. And arithmetic, unfortunately, is not in our favor. The Wehrmacht, by far the best and most advanced war machine of the 1940s, lost to the allies (and above all the USSR) because it did not have so many people, weapons and other resources.
4 million shells that Russia will produce this year will allow it to produce about 10,000 shells per day at Ukrainian positions. Even if 100 enemy shells kill only one Ukrainian, it is 100 people a day, or 36.5 thousand a year. This is not counting 200,000 unguided air bombs and thousands of CABs... Plus drones and all kinds of missiles that Mordor has at its disposal. I don't even mention the losses from the enemy "storklekotny" here...
It's time to face the truth. Over the past year and a half, the front has stalled. In absolute terms, we lost several hundred square kilometres of Ukrainian territory more than we won back. In percentage, it is tenths of a percent. That is, we have learned to restrain the horde, but - unfortunately - we currently do not have the strength and means to liberate our occupied (hopefully temporarily) lands. And given the dynamics of mobilization, supply and production of weapons and ammunition, time is playing against us.
In six months, the presidential election will be held in the United States. After which, in the event of Biden's victory, assistance to Ukraine will continue, but will gradually stagnate, and therefore the chances of a turning point in the war are minimal. In the event of Trump's victory, complete uncertainty awaits us. But it is unlikely that business pragmatist and isolationist Trump will want and be able to reverse the course of the war in Ukraine. So next winter, after the US presidential election, our negotiating position will only become weaker, if not catastrophic.
Therefore, it is necessary to go out to freeze the war this fall. Making the most of the results of mobilization and the generous package of American armed assistance. Leveling the situation at the front (or rather at the fronts) where we are currently retreating.
To do this, it is not necessary to sign a humiliating peace with Putin or recognize the occupied territories as a legitimate part of the Russian Federation. The Korean Truce Agreement is still in effect...
To defeat, Ukraine needs to turn into a European Israel – a mobilized nation in which only national interests remain constant. Partners and allies can change. Improve constitutional architecture. Create an effective state machine. Introduce total military duty. Burn corruption from the state apparatus with hot iron. In a word, learn to live under the sword of Damocles of a Russian attack that can happen at any time.
Unfortunately, this president and this government are simply unable to undergo such transformations. They survived at a time when the world was hiding Ukraine. For this, they are honored and praised and eternal honor in history textbooks. But now creatives, improvisers (as well as schematists) should give way to architects, designers and engineers of statehood. Iron eggs (or if you like, iron will) are not a sufficient prerequisite for winning this war. We can only win by radically changing the system, changing ourselves. And the current leaders of Ukraine are unable to do this. Unfortunately...
Therefore, we desperately need a pause in the war to change the power, change the system, change Ukraine and finally properly prepare for the next rounds of endless duel with Russia, not for May barbecues...
Otherwise, Ukraine will become similar to the Serebryansky Forest (pictured), which is a witness to incredible Ukrainian heroism and military skill. But from which there is almost nothing left. Джерело:

[mapuc]

@ Rockstar

All the links and video provided by us is either Westen propaganda or Russian propaganda. It is our personal political standpoint who makes us believe this or that. As said by the guy in the video below(not in this one I post below)
"None of us know what's exactly going on if you aren't at the front in Ukraine"
As a defence for my friends here, I must say what most of them post is very qualified

More about these Western weapons


Markus

[Jimbuna]

[mapuc]

Looks like some of the Ukrainian conscript is badly trained
(Could this be Russian propaganda?)



Markus

[Rockstar]

Originally Posted by mapuc

@ Rockstar

All the links and video provided by us is either Westen propaganda or Russian propaganda. It is our personal political standpoint who makes us believe this or that. As said by the guy in the video below(not in this one I post below)
"None of us know what's exactly going on if you aren't at the front in Ukraine"
As a defence for my friends here, I must say what most of them post is very qualified

More about these Western weapons


Markus

Markus I just got a kick out of the video that showed the source of the Russian propaganda we were warned about came from British tabloid news.

[Otto Harkaman]

U.S.-supplied weapons

Recently, there has been significant discussion in the news about Ukraine using U.S.-supplied weapons to strike targets inside Russia. President Biden's administration has partially lifted restrictions, allowing Ukraine to use American weapons for counter-fire purposes near the Kharkiv region. This decision follows intense pressure from European allies, U.S. lawmakers, and Ukrainian officials, who have argued that these strikes are necessary to defend against Russian attacks originating from just across the border​ (Politico)​​ (Politico)​​ (Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines)​.

While the Biden administration had previously resisted easing these restrictions due to fears of escalating the conflict, Secretary of State Antony Blinken and other officials have signaled a willingness to adapt the policy as battlefield conditions evolve. However, the U.S. policy still prohibits the use of Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS) or long-range strikes deep inside Russian territory​ (Politico)​​ (Yahoo News - Latest News & Headlines)​.

BUT
There is credible evidence indicating that Ukraine has used the U.S.-supplied Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) against targets in Russian-occupied territories. Reports suggest that Ukraine deployed ATACMS in several significant strikes, targeting Russian military installations and air defense systems.

For instance, on October 17, 2023, Ukraine used ATACMS to strike two Russian airbases, one near Luhansk and another in Berdiansk, resulting in substantial damage, including the destruction of nine helicopters, an ammo depot, and an air defense missile launcher​ (AeroTime)​. Satellite images confirmed these attacks, showing destroyed runways and the ruins of the targeted helicopters​ (AeroTime)​.

Additionally, in May 2024, there were reports of Ukraine using ATACMS to hit Russian air defense sites in Crimea, particularly targeting the S-400 systems at the Belbek air base. These strikes involved up to 16 ATACMS missiles with cluster warheads​ (The Aviationist)​​ (Kyiv Post)​. The use of these missiles is part of Ukraine's broader strategy to degrade Russian air defenses and logistical capabilities.

These operations illustrate Ukraine's ability to conduct precise, long-range strikes, significantly impacting Russian military infrastructure​ (Military.com)​​ (Kyiv Post)​.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Otto Harkaman

)​.
BUT
There is credible evidence indicating that Ukraine has used the U.S.-supplied Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) against targets in Russian-occupied territories. Reports suggest that Ukraine deployed ATACMS in several significant strikes, targeting Russian military installations and air defense systems.

For instance, on October 17, 2023, Ukraine used ATACMS to strike two Russian airbases, one near Luhansk and another in Berdiansk, resulting in substantial damage, including the destruction of nine helicopters, an ammo depot, and an air defense missile launcher​ (AeroTime)​. Satellite images confirmed these attacks, showing destroyed runways and the ruins of the targeted helicopters​ (AeroTime)​.

Additionally, in May 2024, there were reports of Ukraine using ATACMS to hit Russian air defense sites in Crimea, particularly targeting the S-400 systems at the Belbek air base. These strikes involved up to 16 ATACMS missiles with cluster warheads​ (The Aviationist)​​ (Kyiv Post)​. The use of these missiles is part of Ukraine's broader strategy to degrade Russian air defenses and logistical capabilities.

These operations illustrate Ukraine's ability to conduct precise, long-range strikes, significantly impacting Russian military infrastructure​ (Military.com)​​ (Kyiv Post)​.

Didn't US/NATO give full green lights to Ukrainian in using HIMARS, ATACMS and similar against Russian targets inside their own soil ?

Markus