Iran/US conflict - Page 24

ET2SN · 01-10-20, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Quatro

1983?

If you want to dig into 1983 (and there's a lot to dig into), we should start a new thread.

Rufus Shinra · 01-11-20, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Yep.

No excuse, everyone needs to know what the hell they're aiming at before they pull the trigger and kill people. At least the Chinese positively identified their target as a U.S. spy plane before they crashed into it.

Amen to this, even if your gut says the radar contact is a F-14 getting ready for an attack run on your cruiser, you still double-check it before firing.

Skybird · 01-11-20, 05:53 AM

In war, sh!t happens. Before now condemning the Iranians and Russians for their acts, lets not forget that the US should remember how it feels. On July 3rd 1988 the USS Vincennes misidentified Iranian flight 655 as an attacking F14 Tomcat at Bandar-Abas, and shot the Airbus A300 down with a SM2-MR missile. 290 dead.

Something similiar seems to have happened in Teheran. One had just struck the US bases. One had to expect possible US air retaliation. One was on high alert. Adrenaline and excitement and fear all around. Someobdy saw an American snake crawling in the grass - or so he thought -, and pulled his sword.

Sh!t happens in war. The longer one plays with fire, the more often one gets burned. Until one played one time too often. Then the whole house and street goes boom and ablaze.

ikalugin · 01-11-20, 06:31 AM

I would point out that in many cases it is not entirely clear what the target is, even if there is an ability to visually observe the target but particularly when this ability is not there.

C4ISR systems and rules of engagement help, but while Iran could adopt the later those are situational as the threat of attack by massed cruise missiles or stealth aircraft precludes such careful ROEs and I am not aware of Iran obtaining advanced C4ISR systems to go with their SAMs (they are on the market though).

Jimbuna · 01-11-20, 07:44 AM

Iran has admitted "unintentionally" shooting down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

No doubt the poor bugga of the lowest rank who pressed the launch button will be made the scapegoat and not those higher up the chain of command who are responsible for the weapons system and gave the order to fire.

Jimbuna · 01-11-20, 09:23 AM

Commander Wallace · 01-11-20, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Iran has admitted "unintentionally" shooting down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

No doubt the poor bugga of the lowest rank who pressed the launch button will be made the scapegoat and not those higher up the chain of command who are responsible for the weapons system and gave the order to fire.

I never expected Iran to admit to shooting down this aircraft. Then again, forensic science, being what it is, left Iran with little choice. This is a good reason why travel in the area or in the volatile and socially backwards country that is Iran, should be avoided.

Jimbuna · 01-11-20, 09:44 AM

Thankfully when I was there in 1977 it was less so.

Mr Quatro · 01-11-20, 02:05 PM

Iran is looking even more like a third wold country instead of a nation with wisdom in today's nuclear age

Aktungbby · 01-11-20, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Iran has admitted "unintentionally" shooting down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

No doubt the poor bugga of the lowest rank who pressed the launch button will be made the scapegoat and not those higher up the chain of command who are responsible for the weapons system and gave the order to fire.

well, I expect the '"poor bugga's" wife, and the battery commander's to recieve a pipe bomb if precedent is any guarantee; as they did to the USS Vincennes captain's wife...in San Diego!! followed by an apology to the still-living captain after years of harrassment! All things being akbar-equal to the god of war...theoretically

and I wonder what the Iranian commemorative postage stamp will look like to honor all those dead Canadian-Iranians??

mapuc · 01-11-20, 07:08 PM

And I can't understand why they didn't close the Iranian airspace

From xx.xx hour and until further notice the Iranian airspace is closed for civilian aircraft.

Markus

Skybird · 01-11-20, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

And I can't understand why they didn't close the Iranian airspace

From xx.xx hour and until further notice the Iranian airspace is closed for civilian aircraft.

Markus

Actually, it seems some high ranking air defence commander demanded right that. And was overturned by a higher instancene in the political-military command chain. I read this somewhere over the day, but for the sake of heaven cant remember the source anymore, whether it was an English or German newspaper.

Jimbuna · 01-12-20, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Iran plane crash: Protesters condemn 'lies' on downed jet.

Hundreds of protesters have taken to the streets in Iran's capital, Tehran, to vent anger at officials, calling them liars for having denied shooting down a Ukrainian passenger plane.

Protests took place outside at least two universities, with tear gas reportedly fired.

US President Donald Trump tweeted support for the "inspiring" protests.

The students called for those responsible for the downing the plane, and those they said had covered up the action, to be prosecuted.

Chants included "commander-in-chief resign", referring to Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, and "death to liars".

One wrote on Twitter: "I will never forgive the authorities in my country, the people who were on the scene and lying."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51079965

The POTUS and Secretary of State Pompeo just have to get involved.

Quote:

The government of Iran must allow human rights groups to monitor and report facts from the ground on the ongoing protests by the Iranian people. There can not be another massacre of peaceful protesters, nor an internet shutdown. The world is watching.

Quote:

"The voice of the Iranian people is clear. They are fed up with the regime's lies, corruption, ineptitude, and brutality of the IRGC [Revolutionary Guards] under Khamenei's kleptocracy. We stand with the Iranian people who deserve a better future."

Moonlight · 01-12-20, 10:44 AM

That's not how the Iranian camel shaggers and sheep molesters see it.

"UK Envoy Arrested after Provoking Anti-Iran Gathering"
https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2...thering-source

Mr Quatro · 01-12-20, 11:01 AM

Double jeopardy ... Not only did Iran lie about the shooting down of a civilian airliner they knew immediately that they had done something wrong and then they lied about it.

The Iranians are not happy with their leaders and it could become a serious issue in the near future

"What else are they lying about"?

01-11-20, 05:53 AM	#348
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 40,643 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	In war, sh!t happens. Before now condemning the Iranians and Russians for their acts, lets not forget that the US should remember how it feels. On July 3rd 1988 the USS Vincennes misidentified Iranian flight 655 as an attacking F14 Tomcat at Bandar-Abas, and shot the Airbus A300 down with a SM2-MR missile. 290 dead. Something similiar seems to have happened in Teheran. One had just struck the US bases. One had to expect possible US air retaliation. One was on high alert. Adrenaline and excitement and fear all around. Someobdy saw an American snake crawling in the grass - or so he thought -, and pulled his sword. Sh!t happens in war. The longer one plays with fire, the more often one gets burned. Until one played one time too often. Then the whole house and street goes boom and ablaze. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 01-11-20 at 06:02 AM.

01-11-20, 06:31 AM	#349
ikalugin Ocean Warrior Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Moscow, Russia Posts: 3,212 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I would point out that in many cases it is not entirely clear what the target is, even if there is an ability to visually observe the target but particularly when this ability is not there. C4ISR systems and rules of engagement help, but while Iran could adopt the later those are situational as the threat of attack by massed cruise missiles or stealth aircraft precludes such careful ROEs and I am not aware of Iran obtaining advanced C4ISR systems to go with their SAMs (they are on the market though). __________________ Grumpy as always.

01-11-20, 07:44 AM	#350
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Iran has admitted "unintentionally" shooting down a Ukrainian passenger jet, killing all 176 people on board. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621 No doubt the poor bugga of the lowest rank who pressed the launch button will be made the scapegoat and not those higher up the chain of command who are responsible for the weapons system and gave the order to fire. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

01-11-20, 09:23 AM	#351
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	__________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

01-11-20, 09:44 AM	#353
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 181,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Thankfully when I was there in 1977 it was less so. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!! GWX3.0 Download Page - Donation/instant access to GWX (Help SubSim)

01-11-20, 02:05 PM	#354
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Iran is looking even more like a third wold country instead of a nation with wisdom in today's nuclear age __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..

01-11-20, 07:08 PM	#356
mapuc Fleet Admiral Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 18,101 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	And I can't understand why they didn't close the Iranian airspace From xx.xx hour and until further notice the Iranian airspace is closed for civilian aircraft. Markus

01-12-20, 10:44 AM	#359
Moonlight Admiral Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fookhall Copse Posts: 2,152 Downloads: 184 Uploads: 0	That's not how the Iranian camel shaggers and sheep molesters see it. "UK Envoy Arrested after Provoking Anti-Iran Gathering" https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2...thering-source __________________

01-12-20, 11:01 AM	#360
Mr Quatro Navy Seal Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 6,772 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Double jeopardy ... Not only did Iran lie about the shooting down of a civilian airliner they knew immediately that they had done something wrong and then they lied about it. The Iranians are not happy with their leaders and it could become a serious issue in the near future "What else are they lying about"? __________________ pla•teau noun a relatively stable level, period, or condition a level of attainment or achievement Lord help me get to the next plateau ..