US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 239

Rockstar · 08-15-17, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

I wouldn't completely rule out the effect of China's message to both NK and the US.

Nor would I rule the idea that China reigned in Fatboy because we were prepared to not back down and even go so far as to respond with 'fire and fury' . Personally I think we had them both by the balls on this one.

Im also for allowing the U.S. Navy continue freedom of navigation and joint military excercisies with Japan and South Korea and even going so far as giving them the keys to their own nuclear weapons.

vienna · 08-15-17, 11:44 AM

This whole Kim/Trump dust-up has reminded me of clubs and bars, particularly my days as a bartender. Kim/Trump are a lot like a couple of loudmouthed, belligerent drunks (on perceived power, perhaps?) you see in bars and clubs who get into a shouting match daring each other and threatening each other as the crowd looks on; generally, those types of dust-ups rarely result in an actual fight since both 'combatants' are inwardly hoping some friend of theirs or other bystander will step in and/or hold them back with the obligatory stance of "Ya, well, I could have taken ya, if he hadn't stepped in!"...

China is kind of like the bouncer in this go round; aside from just talking to NK, they also, in the last few days put some serious sanctions on NK regarding imports into China; I would have to say that factor had more to do with NK pulling back than any of the Trump rhetoric; its about 6,900 miles (11,100km) from DC to Pyongyang and China is a hell of a lot closer and bigger; in a barroom shouting match, the bouncer in your face gets much more of your attention than the guy you were yelling at at the end of the bar...

<O>

Rockstar · 08-15-17, 12:09 PM

Yes it was nice of China to slap fatboy with sanctions all praise China the savior of the world. Why is it you think they stepped up to the plate this time with such vigor? I wonder too if their missile technolgy and parts are included in those sanctions? Or do you really think the Norks have secret underground lairs and the education to develope their own?

I still say we should make'em squeal like a pig a little longer.

Rockstar · 08-15-17, 12:12 PM

Realize too these days distance isnt much of an issue when it comes to retaliating against an aggressor either. Obviously China knows that cruise missle diplomacy works. And with Hypersonic tech around the corner the world will get even smaller.

August · 08-15-17, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Yes it was nice of China to slap fatboy with sanctions all praise China the savior of the world. Why is it you think they stepped up to the plate this time with such vigor? I wonder too if their missile technolgy and parts are included in those sanctions? Or do you really think the Norks have secret underground lairs and the education to develope their own?

I still say we should make'em squeal like a pig a little longer.

Amazing how some people are so eager to try out the Mao suit huh?
I agree with you, we should keep putting the screws to them.

vienna · 08-15-17, 01:19 PM

The screws, as you put it, are only effective if their is broad based support for sanctions; the US, alone, is relatively powerless to seriously affect the economy of NK since there is no trade at all between the two nations; short of a naval blockade, there is nothing the US alone can do; that is why the US had to go to the UN and ask for the imposition of more stringent sanctions. It is notable, in the current appeal for stringent sanctions, China did not exercise its veto power, something it has often done in the past; if China had not cooperated with the new sanctions appeal, and, as importantly, actually participated in their imposition, all the US would have had left is bellicose saber rattling and chest thumping and NK would have just merrily gone on its own path. Using the analogy of a bar fight again, one thing I have learned is the biggest threat in a bar comes not from the guys being loudly belligerent (sound and fury signifying nothing), but, most often from the taciturn guy at the end of the bar: he's more likely to be dangerous because he doesn't have to advertise his skills; he has the confidence of his abilities and has no need for needless embellishments. Trump and Kim are the loudmouths the bouncers will have to eventually throw out; China is more like one of those guys of which the bouncers and bartenders are wary...

Remember Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."...

<O>

Mr Quatro · 08-15-17, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by August

Amazing how some people are so eager to try out the Mao suit huh?
I agree with you, we should keep putting the screws to them.

Fat boy Kim did the same thing I did ... He believed Trump was going to pull the trigger if provoked by NK

Von Due · 08-15-17, 01:36 PM

NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK.

It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.

vienna · 08-15-17, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK.

It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.

...or, basically, the bouncer settling down the noisy drunks...

<O>

Von Due · 08-15-17, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

...or, basically, the bouncer settling down the noisy drunks...

<O>

Pretty much spot on.

Jimbuna · 08-15-17, 02:55 PM

Gentlemen, we already have a thread dedicated to the escalation of troubles between the US and NK.

'Strike on North Korea ' http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...230409&page=21

Rockstar · 08-15-17, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Von Due

NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK.

It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.

NK has been a headache for China? China the same country that is most likely supplying little Un and his regime with the technology, parts and guidance systems to build and fly these missiles to a specific target? You might believe NK is some red headed stepchild nobody wants. But I dont, not for a moment. What I do beleive is China has backed away from their little frankenstein which they created to save face to convince the gullable they didnt have anything to do with the latest headlines. They, that is North Korea AND China tested us we repsonded in no uncertain terms were we going to sit and take threats of nuclear warfare lightly. they blinked first and lost.

Von Due · 08-15-17, 03:31 PM

Yes, NK has been quite the headache for China. Since you read the news then no doubt you would have read how NK airlines have been denied entry into Chinese airspace, or how China barred the coal trade, to mention 2 actions. China is not happy with NK at all. China seeks to expand economically into the western markets so they need to distance themselves from what is a family run bandit state. Expedience above all, like for everybody else.

Jim: Sorry, didn't see your post before now. Feel free to merge. Over and out.

em2nought · 08-16-17, 03:31 AM

Sooooooo, this certainly wouldn't fit the deep state approved narrative https://www.challengerforumz.com/thr...ticking.67603/

http://www.challengertalk.com/forums...-driving-7774/

http://www.challengerlife.com/thread...throttle.4875/

Up until now they seem to have felt it was a "feature" instead of a fault. Sorry officer, my throttle is stuck.

vienna · 08-17-17, 07:05 AM

<O>

08-15-17, 11:44 AM	#3572
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,720 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	This whole Kim/Trump dust-up has reminded me of clubs and bars, particularly my days as a bartender. Kim/Trump are a lot like a couple of loudmouthed, belligerent drunks (on perceived power, perhaps?) you see in bars and clubs who get into a shouting match daring each other and threatening each other as the crowd looks on; generally, those types of dust-ups rarely result in an actual fight since both 'combatants' are inwardly hoping some friend of theirs or other bystander will step in and/or hold them back with the obligatory stance of "Ya, well, I could have taken ya, if he hadn't stepped in!"... China is kind of like the bouncer in this go round; aside from just talking to NK, they also, in the last few days put some serious sanctions on NK regarding imports into China; I would have to say that factor had more to do with NK pulling back than any of the Trump rhetoric; its about 6,900 miles (11,100km) from DC to Pyongyang and China is a hell of a lot closer and bigger; in a barroom shouting match, the bouncer in your face gets much more of your attention than the guy you were yelling at at the end of the bar... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

08-15-17, 12:09 PM	#3573
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Yes it was nice of China to slap fatboy with sanctions all praise China the savior of the world. Why is it you think they stepped up to the plate this time with such vigor? I wonder too if their missile technolgy and parts are included in those sanctions? Or do you really think the Norks have secret underground lairs and the education to develope their own? I still say we should make'em squeal like a pig a little longer. Last edited by Rockstar; 08-15-17 at 12:20 PM.

08-15-17, 01:19 PM	#3576
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,720 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	The screws, as you put it, are only effective if their is broad based support for sanctions; the US, alone, is relatively powerless to seriously affect the economy of NK since there is no trade at all between the two nations; short of a naval blockade, there is nothing the US alone can do; that is why the US had to go to the UN and ask for the imposition of more stringent sanctions. It is notable, in the current appeal for stringent sanctions, China did not exercise its veto power, something it has often done in the past; if China had not cooperated with the new sanctions appeal, and, as importantly, actually participated in their imposition, all the US would have had left is bellicose saber rattling and chest thumping and NK would have just merrily gone on its own path. Using the analogy of a bar fight again, one thing I have learned is the biggest threat in a bar comes not from the guys being loudly belligerent (sound and fury signifying nothing), but, most often from the taciturn guy at the end of the bar: he's more likely to be dangerous because he doesn't have to advertise his skills; he has the confidence of his abilities and has no need for needless embellishments. Trump and Kim are the loudmouths the bouncers will have to eventually throw out; China is more like one of those guys of which the bouncers and bartenders are wary... Remember Teddy Roosevelt: "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."... <O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __

08-15-17, 02:55 PM	#3581
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,918 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	Gentlemen, we already have a thread dedicated to the escalation of troubles between the US and NK. 'Strike on North Korea ' http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...230409&page=21 __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

08-16-17, 03:31 AM	#3584
em2nought Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 3,485 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Sooooooo, this certainly wouldn't fit the deep state approved narrative https://www.challengerforumz.com/thr...ticking.67603/ http://www.challengertalk.com/forums...-driving-7774/ http://www.challengerlife.com/thread...throttle.4875/ Up until now they seem to have felt it was a "feature" instead of a fault. Sorry officer, my throttle is stuck. __________________ em2nought is ecstatic garbage!

08-15-17, 12:12 PM	#3574
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Realize too these days distance isnt much of an issue when it comes to retaliating against an aggressor either. Obviously China knows that cruise missle diplomacy works. And with Hypersonic tech around the corner the world will get even smaller.

08-15-17, 01:36 PM	#3578
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	NK has been a headache for China for some time now. Sanctions aside, they made it clear to Dim Kim that if he pressed the button, he would have to face the US alone. That would not fit into Kim's scheme at all, him counting on China's support and now they threaten to up and leave him. At the same time, China also made it clear that if the US launched anything resembling an attack, then China would very much side with NK. It isn't about any saviour of the world, it's about pragmatic politics. It is in China's best interest to have both sides call back their war hawks.

08-15-17, 03:31 PM	#3583
Von Due Sea Lord Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 1,690 Downloads: 30 Uploads: 0	Yes, NK has been quite the headache for China. Since you read the news then no doubt you would have read how NK airlines have been denied entry into Chinese airspace, or how China barred the coal trade, to mention 2 actions. China is not happy with NK at all. China seeks to expand economically into the western markets so they need to distance themselves from what is a family run bandit state. Expedience above all, like for everybody else. Jim: Sorry, didn't see your post before now. Feel free to merge. Over and out.

08-17-17, 07:05 AM	#3585
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,720 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	<O> __________________ __________________________________________________ __