Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Leitender]

Originally Posted by Olamagato

At the beginning I wanted to apologize for the unpleasant form of my post.

Not necessary. Usually, poor sailor´s answer is a short but hard jab. After this, they normally become friends.

Originally Posted by Olamagato

Attaching anything to the map view for me is just too uncertain to draw on this basis some conclusions. Perhaps the view of the detectors on the map corresponds to what is going on in the game, but it can not be sure.

Typically, in many games difficulty settings change its action and its interaction with the AI. And since we do not know how realism affects the game, you can nothing assume on this basis.

For me it´s the only testing configuration. And, of course, the help shows indeed few information about enemy sensors: maxrange and maxbearing. No elevation, no minrange, nothing else. Maybe minbearing, but never tested. I can see a correspondence between this helping circles and the data within ai_sensors. Why should this help use another data base? So when these values work, my asumption remains that all other data work, too.

Originally Posted by Olamagato

However, I also carry out such tests in the past. Does not remove the device "H01" from a specially crafted ship, but I changed MaxRange = 1 for devices "AI default hydrophone" and all passive sonar (TypeXXXP and QXXP). I got these results that all escort ships stopped detecting my u-boot. Even if the u-boot was terribly noisy.

To be honest, i would expect the same result. If they weren´t at "high alert" status (which means you haven´t been detected before) they´re continuing their walk until you get into their sonar range, unconcerned about your noise.

Another thing is, that there´s no ship at all which is equipped with an "AI_hydrophone" . Don´t know for which reason these "AI" sensors are contained in the AI_sensors.dat. Maybe a relict from testing phase or even older parts (SH2?).

Originally Posted by Olamagato

Tell me please if your u-boot was found in the angle of the cone in front of the escort ship? If you lower MaxBearing = 10, then your-boot should be detected only at the time when the corvette will excelled bow in your U-boat. Can you verify this? Did your u-boat is detected also in silent running mode?

I placed my boat 150 to 200m side offset to the escort´s course. When maxbearing of sonar was 60°, i´ve been detected every time by sonar (and i heard the pings), because of its original range of 1200m. At maxbearing=1°, i was not in his cone at all, so he didn´t engage me. I believe there´s no "supervisor" sonar. I also tested without rig for silent running, because afaik sonar detection is not sound dependant (there´s no sound factor within sim.cfg, in contrast to the hydrophone settings). But I know that there´s an aspect dependant detection of the sonar. Stiebler always uses an aspect of 100m², but in earlier tests, i only realized a difference between bow on and bow off at a minsurface of 50m². I should have repeated this tests, as a have to repeat my sonar detection test while silent running and while ahead flank.

Best regards

[Consigliere]

Hi, h.sie. I have some question regarding your patch kit.
Sorry for not testing some of those myself, but i've just uninstalled the game and would make a fresh installation in some time with your patch. So, to the questions:
1) Hydrophone-Fix. As I do understand your patch tries to make a game more RL style, but that thing is not realistic. The realistic approach is to make the hydrophones work less effective depending on the depth (deeper - more efficient work) and to make them less effective on the rear side of the boat (a cone between 135 and 225 degrees). So, would it be possible to implement such approach?
2) External torpedo reload fix. The manual states that "The time necessary to interrupt... is randomly chosen between 4 and 13 minutes". Is it possible to make it relative to the values from the .sim files (time to revert = value from .sim/% progress made)?
3) Internal torpedo reload fix. The manual states that no reload possible "during storm and when surfaced". It's not clear if those are two individual or simultaneous conditions...
4) Move 1WO to bridge. Wow, that is the thing i've dreamed about for many years playing stock SH3. Thanx. Now that you have managed to do this, the question is: is it possible to remove the restriction to have watchmen and... deck and especialy flak gunners on surface at the same time?
5) Oxygen-Supply. Great addition to game strategy level. Thanx. But it's not clear from the manual: what's with your O2 renewable part when you are snorkeling?
6) Battery Discharge Bugfix. Never been in such situation due to this bug, but... If you are a little above crash depth and with this fix have run out of battery power... will you ever be able to surface without any propulsion?
7) Diesel Damages Fix. Great add to strategy level also. Thanx. Two questions: a) does your formula takes into account diesel upgrade values from basic.cfg file (speedboost param), which are greater than 1.00 in stock SH3, if i do remember correctly? and b) is it possible to make all of the equipment damageable through usage (for example, the damage can occur at any moment but the longer you are in a patrol - the greater the chance, and the level of damage is randomly chosen of course between 1 and 100%)?
Would be nice if you could answer, and of course many thanks for your hard work on this patch.

[drakkhen20]

i havent been on in a year now and i have the old patch on my exe. the 15 version. so how do i go to 16 version. i tried the addon one but everytime i activate the batch file it like makes my exe file disappear and it creates an old file exe. so what am i doing wrong here ?

[drakkhen20]

yes just to make sure i looked it up again. i have v15 patched exe. so how do i patch to the current one ? because when i place the stock sh3.exe in the v16 patch file and activate the batch file it tells me its the wrong version or its not compatible. so i think i need help here . thanks.

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by Leitender

To be honest, i would expect the same result. If they weren´t at "high alert" status (which means you haven´t been detected before) they´re continuing their walk until you get into their sonar range, unconcerned about your noise.

The biggest problem with SH3 detectors is that the self-noise apparently affects the active sonar. Or otherwise silent running effectively eliminates the detection, which should be properly guaranteed.

Another thing is, that there´s no ship at all which is equipped with an "AI_hydrophone" . Don´t know for which reason these "AI" sensors are contained in the AI_sensors.dat. Maybe a relict from testing phase or even older parts (SH2?).

I am inclined to believe that the "AI default hydrophone" is hard-coded detector, which is present in each unit. Note that the vast difference in the detection of u-boat between stock SH3 and GWX is only one difference: Change MaxRange from 600m to 7km.

I also tested without rig for silent running, because afaik sonar detection is not sound dependant (there´s no sound factor within sim.cfg, in contrast to the hydrophone settings). But I know that there´s an aspect dependant detection of the sonar.

Therefore, this aspect of the tests used to set the value of 0.1 m, which guarantees that the game does not reject the detection of u-boat if other conditions are met. It did not matter whether I set this for each of sonars individually or set the default value when all sonar models will have a 0m2 value aspect.
For a long time trying to eliminate the influence of silent running on the sonar and still this effect does exist.

Stiebler always uses an aspect of 100m², but in earlier tests, i only realized a difference between bow on and bow off at a minsurface of 50m.

For such a big weakness sonar is a better approach in my opinion, underestimating this value to sonar detect better than overstating it to detect worse. From what I know in reality the Allies sonar technology was very efficient, but in a passive targeting were much weaker than the Germans. That is why the game should reflect this.

[Vince82]

@ Consigliere

You ask a lot of questions. I'll answer two of them for you.

1) Hydrophone-Fix. As I do understand your patch tries to make a game more RL style, but that thing is not realistic. The realistic approach is to make the hydrophones work less effective depending on the depth (deeper - more efficient work) and to make them less effective on the rear side of the boat (a cone between 135 and 225 degrees). So, would it be possible to implement such approach?

That's the hydrophone layer mod.

6) Battery Discharge Bugfix. Never been in such situation due to this bug, but... If you are a little above crash depth and with this fix have run out of battery power... will you ever be able to surface without any propulsion?

Try pressing 'E'.

[drakkhen20]

nevermind everyone. i figured it out. thannks for all the helpful posts.

[Consigliere]

@ Vince82

Originally Posted by Vince82

@ Consigliere
You ask a lot of questions. I'll answer two of them for you.

Of course, I do. There are a lot of changes, and I have a lot of questions.

Originally Posted by Vince82

@ Consigliere
...
That's the hydrophone layer mod.

No, this patch does not simulate layers in any way. It just disables hydrophones when diesels are working. That is not realistic. The realistic approach was disclosed in my post. Moreover such an approach could allow to simulate layers, if h.Sie would manade to randomise the level of hydrophone work according to sub's death.
For a good layer simulation on a sub game try 688(i) hunter/killer (it's not about WW2 german sub, but about modern nuclear US one).

Originally Posted by Vince82

@ Consigliere
...
Try pressing 'E'.

Yes, do know of blowing balast, of course. Just never been in such a situation due to the original bug.

@h.Sie
And I've just thougth of a little proposal. Could you add a function to the .bat file (and a patcher?) to first check an .old file in a working directory, and if it exists - copy it to .exe and patch. If it doesn't exists - look for .exe file.

[h.sie]

I'm sorry to leave you alone with your questions, but real life issues don't allow me to fulfil any wishes, nor even to discuss about what is realistic and what is not. There have always been a lot of controverse views about realism here. That will not change.

My fixes are not "realistic", they are, "what I think could be realistic".

So if you don't like some of the fixes, simply disable them via the OptionsSelector, or - provided you know assembler - change the fix as you like.

Best wishes, guys!
h.sie

[Consigliere]

Hm... Just one of my questions was somehow related to realism... But was mostly focused on programming.
It's a pity you can't provide a feedback on your great patch in respect to community members for the respect of your work which the community members provide you through trusting your code.
Best wishes in your "real life issues" and once again thanks for your moding work.
Consigliere

[Stoli151]

h.sie- I was wondering if somebody was interested in doing so could a version of your patch be possible for sh4? I was just wondering if you thought it was possible, given the two game engines are similar. I do enjoy sh3, but I also enjoy sh4's better graphics. I was thinking that as many people upgrade their hardware maybe sh4 might start to have more appeal since it is very similar to sh3 in gameplay. Maybe some of the great mods from sh3 could just be redone for sh4. Please don't think I am asking for anything other than your opinion, I know you have stated you are getting burned out with modding. Thanks.

[Dani]

h.sie- I was wondering if somebody was interested in doing so could a version of your patch be possible for sh4? I was just wondering if you thought it was possible, given the two game engines are similar. I do enjoy sh3, but I also enjoy sh4's better graphics. I was thinking that as many people upgrade their hardware maybe sh4 might start to have more appeal since it is very similar to sh3 in gameplay. Maybe some of the great mods from sh3 could just be redone for sh4. Please don't think I am asking for anything other than your opinion, I know you have stated you are getting burned out with modding. Thanks.

+1

[drakkhen20]

DX9HiResFix
_LSH3_V5
_LSH3_V5.1
_LSH3_V5.1__Bunkerstart
_LSH3_V5.1__ExtendedChallenge
_LSH3_V5.1__Rotating-DF-Antenna_V3
M.E.P v3
MaGui F
MaGui F FIX for LSH3 v5.1
German Images for MaGui F
TorpedoSolutionButton for MaGui F (LSH3)
Type VII salvo selector
_LSH3_V5.1_SLS_Schiffshorn-Leuchtkugeln-Seenotsignal
_LSH3_V5.1_SLS_Spezialeffekte-Gross
Drakkhen - Better Sound Mod
Waterstream+Exhaust Combi V2.3 for GWX3
TheDarkWraith_DC_Water_Disturbance_v1_0_SH3
TheDarkWraith_Ship_Plane_Fire_Damage_v1_4_SH3
Stiebler3_Addon_for_V16B1
O2-Gauges v2
Torpedo_HAHD_1024_GWX

ok so when im on patrol my little messager ticker will just pop up with like "WE:" or "CE:" but it wont say anything and when i send a patrol report and recieve one it contains no text so whats going on with this?

[Parkera]

From the 1st page:
4) The patcher will remove the copy protection of your sh3.exe. Since this is not legal, you must not use this patcher if you have a copy-protected version.

pLEASE CAN YOU CLARIFY this for me. What do you mean by copy protected? I have org Cd and when i start a game (even with Commander)the thing comes up looking for the cd. Is this the same or something else? Ya mod sounds great and would love to install but dont wanna risk it in case.

[h.sie]

@Stoli: Although I don't know sh4.exe, it's surely possible - provided that you find someone who knows assembler and is willing to spend more than 18 months, 4 hours a day for programming.

@drakkhen: The messages didn't find their way into the game. Try to reread the manual carefully.

@Yes, you seem to have the copy protected sh3.exe. Using the patcher and removing the copy protection would be against law.