Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy (merged)

[Jimbuna]

Rgr that

[Gerald]

[Jimbuna]

[Jimbuna]

Click on the graphics in the link to see the potential consequences should Greece leave the Eurozone...there are a lot more bad than good which I found a little surprising:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18074674

[STEED]

Well back in May this year this was said...

Citigroup’s Michael Saunders has informed clients that Greece WILL leave the eurozone on January 1st, 2013

http://www.silverdoctors.com/citigro...across-europe/

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...Years-Day.html

We shall see.

My bet...fat chance as Goldman Sachs has got their grubby claws in Greece.

[Gerald]

Seventy years on, it is one of the many war crimes for which Greece is seeking compensation from Germany.

The Greek government has compiled a document demanding war reparations from Germany.High up in the Peloponnese, above the town of Kalavryta, Giorgos Dimopoulos reads through the names chiselled into a stone monument. At one, he stops. "Dimitrios Dimopoulos. My father." He pauses to catch his breath before continuing through the list of 498 men.

At this spot on 13 December 1943, one of the worst crimes of World War II took place: the massacre of the town's entire male population over the age of 12.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22470295

Note: 13 May 2013 Last updated at 00:26 GMT

[Skybird]

Left+communist party Syriza is projected to be currently just one seat away from an absolute majority.

That is bad new for all people who have believed the stupid babble of the past five years about state bonds being paid back and credits being paid back. Tsirpas, head of a party that almost by half is formed of radical communists, wants to once again steal from and betray creditors. I would not complain if these creditors were private actors who formed their own decisions regarding their own investments only - unfortunately we are talking about investments made by criminal and ruthless governments in other countries such as my own, who gamble away money for which ordinary people like myself have to come up for, or money that gets created by fresh credit and so hurts a whole rat tail of fiscal contexts that again will have the financial bill in the end paid not by decision makers, but the ordinary people. That starts with insurance business bleeding, and ends with new credits we have to take up and pay for in order to pay for the credit losses by the Greeks.

This article is by a Greek author, about his countrymen and their culture of denying reality. I had read him before repeatedly, and find it very interesting what he has to say about how and why the Greek are so insecure of themselves, have an obvious inferiority complex, and a serious identity problem. It already starts with realising that the modern Greece is far less West-oriented than usually is implied when mentioning "Europe" and "democracy". The identity forming factors have not been democracy or the renaissance, traditional Western values and views, but the orthodox church, and orthodox communism - both of which are hostile to the West.

LINK

[STEED]

With luck the first thing they will do is withdraw from the EU and get the ball rolling.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by STEED

With luck the first thing they will do is withdraw from the EU and get the ball rolling.

Would cost Germany alone 70 billions in securities. Follow-on costs from the disruption not counted. No, its better to throw more money after the illusions and hope that a miracle will happen all by itself. The fairy queen, maybe.

But thank God hasn't the central committee of the EU just recently declared that the Euro treaties do not allow withdrawal of members from the Euro, and that membership in the Euro-Union was signed to last forever, eternally?



Yes, I am very sure that this was exactly what they said.



No wonder. If one country leaves the Euro and than would have the indecency to be su7ccessful and to recover, then this would prove that there is a life outside and beyond and after the Euro.

This evidence is to be prevented AT ALL COST. Even if that means to shatter nations to pieces instead. That's why they will not let Greece move away (and why they are so murderously infuriated about the Swiss). And that is why Tsirpas will get what he wants. And that is why the crisis will deepen. And his example will be copied. And reforms will be further prevented and delayed and eroded. And that is why it will become all worse.

[Oberon]

The German delegation is on its way to congratulate the new Greek government:

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Would cost Germany alone 70 billions in securities. Follow-on costs from the disruption not counted. No, its better to throw more money after the illusions and hope that a miracle will happen all by itself. The fairy queen, maybe.

But thank God hasn't the central committee of the EU just recently declared that the Euro treaties do not allow withdrawal of members from the Euro, and that membership in the Euro-Union was signed to last forever, eternally?



Yes, I am very sure that this was exactly what they said.



No wonder. If one country leaves the Euro and than would have the indecency to be su7ccessful and to recover, then this would prove that there is a life outside and beyond and after the Euro.

This evidence is to be prevented AT ALL COST. Even if that means to shatter nations to pieces instead. That's why they will not let Greece move away (and why they are so murderously infuriated about the Swiss). And that is why Tsirpas will get what he wants. And that is why the crisis will deepen. And his example will be copied. And reforms will be further prevented and delayed and eroded. And that is why it will become all worse.

Now I wonder what would happen in the other EU-contries, if EU refuse Greece to leave the Union and the Euro?(a speculation)

Markus

[Onkel Neal]

So, Greece is turning commie. What's that mean for the Greek economy? How about their debt?

[Rockstar]

Fluoridation is next.

.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

So, Greece is turning commie. What's that mean for the Greek economy? How about their debt?

For the average Greek person...probably not good things. People are tired of austerity, and things in Greece are pretty bleak. I think they hope that this new party will change that. I think there are three possibilities:

1) They don't change anything. The Troika continues because now that they're in power they suddenly realise the enormity of the problem and that their promises will actually only make things worse. The downside of this is that there will be fresh elections within a year as people demand change, and the far-right Golden Dawn (who polled third in the elections, up from fifth/sixth in 2012) might well be able to gain itself some power. Needless to say, this would be a bad thing. Thankfully it's also not likely to happen, SYRIZA isn't stupid and they know that they have to do something that's different from the current leadership, which brings us to...

2) A watered down bailout deal. The most likely of the three, Germany doesn't want Greece to leave the EU, so they're likely going to try and strike a deal of some sort. It'll be at great cost to Germany and will probably sink Merkel, but it'll keep Greece in, SYRIZA in power, and yet Merkel will still be able to take away a little something, a promise that Greece will pay something back.

3) Greece leaves the single currency, no more bailouts, no more Euro in Athens. It's possible that they might stay within the EU but leave the Euro, operating a little like the UK, or they might leave entirely. This is the second most likely scenario. In which case there will be somewhat of a shockwave across the Eurozone, no doubt UKIP will be applauding from the rooftops and Cameron will put his own spin on it, Merkel will be very unimpressed but powerless. Greece will feel emotionally bouyant, it will be a great propaganda coup...but four months down the line, the Greek economy will either be heading for stability, or sinking without a trace...I fear tha latter if I'm honest. Either which way, bad scenario for the average Greek citizen.

So, really, the best case scenario for the Greek citizen in the immediate to medium term future is Greece within the Eurozone but with a substantial deal in regards to its debts (although this in itself may trigger a wave of debt negotiations with Germanies other customers). Long term...well, that's a trickier one, on its own Greece could perhaps make a go of it, it wouldn't be easy at all, there will be at least a decade of economic misery and social unrest, but after that...depending on how the EU has coped in that decade, Greece could pull through quite well, or it could collapse into another civil war. Until a country leaves the EU that has already been intergrated and assimilated into it, there's simply no real way of knowing.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

So, Greece is turning commie. What's that mean for the Greek economy?

Tzatziki lines beside the bread lines.