target speed: the eighty-ten method - Page 23

joegrundman · 09-18-10, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by razark

So, I hold the target at a constant bearing of 273 degrees, and I go 24 knots, therefore the AoB is...
<grabs slide rule>
Carry the 1...
<fiddles with the calculator>
249 decrees?

No. Where's the right angle fit into this?

I'll show you how the right angle fits into this

gutted · 09-18-10, 03:50 PM

What the hell happened in here?

Cliff notes?

(I only skimmed the first and second to last pages)

Nisgeis · 09-18-10, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gutted

What the hell happened in here?

Cliff notes?

(I only skimmed the first and second to last pages)

A. Greyrider presented a method that was incomplete, as it did not explain a fatal flaw in the method as presented.
B. People asked for clarification on the flaw.
C. Goto A. Add more and more insults from Greyrider each iteration.

Diopos · 09-18-10, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gutted

What the hell happened in here?

Cliff notes?

(I only skimmed the first and second to last pages)

Short Vesion: If you keep the target at an 80°/280° constant bearing (<=> establishing a collision course) its AoB is 10°. Ahhh and if you think differently you're an ignorant low life and probably a Rockin Robbins victim with no mind of your own. And you don't understand greatness even if it slaps your face!

.

Rockin Robbins · 09-18-10, 06:28 PM

I was his favorite.

Uhhhhhh......we'll stick around to clean up the mess. Target destroyed though!

Armistead · 09-18-10, 10:09 PM

Really a pity. I thought it started off rather good and made a good discussion. This thread should've taken a better route mid-way. Someone
could've just admitted they tried hard and just lacking. I'm sure many of you brains have gone this route working something out and you hit on something. Nothing wrong with trying, but when it becomes obvious, man up and say good try.

Then it became silly. Grey knows he's wrong and just kept at it trying to
stir people up. It's possible he could contribute much more, because he ain't dumb, just immature, now he'll forever be a mute.

Rockin Robbins · 09-19-10, 02:46 AM

Well, that IS the pity. While the specific details of 8010 were garbage, the principle of keeping a target on a constant bearing is a guarantee that if they are approaching your courses will cross because you are on a collision course.

But that was the beginning and end of 8010. There was nothing special or desirable about the 8010 relationship. You could not shoot with 8010, just get close to your target. Actually the strategic aim of basic approach strategy is to be able to take advantage of larger and larger AoB's, not restrict yourself to a 20º cone, so his whole idea of 8010 was against the entire body of US Navy tactics as explained in the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual.

Ignoring the overall theme of the entire manual, he misused a single formula to imply that there was something special about an 80º bearing and a 10º angle on the bow. Had he been willing to let go of his obsession he would have had a valid approach, but not targeting tactic. The rules would have been much more general and adaptable and people would have thanked him for it.

And I get the idea that he's not young. He's apparently had some life experiences, perhaps even in the military, scary as that is... He'd certainly be the commander from hell, unable to benefit from the input of his subordinates. Lots of that sort in business today, so sure of their own rightness than they reject all ideas they have not thought of themselves.

Ah, it's the whole Greek tragedy thing... hubris and all that rot...

I'm goin' down · 12-04-10, 03:21 AM

This thread should get an award at the end of the year. But what award could do it justice?

Pisces · 12-04-10, 04:48 AM

I'd vote for "Ig-Nobel that doesn't get it"!

joea · 12-04-10, 05:14 AM

Wow I missed a lot when I was away.

tomoose · 12-04-10, 09:56 AM

Hit the 'back' key and step away from the keyboard, don't prod this sleeping bear of a thread, LOL.

Platapus · 12-04-10, 12:04 PM

This was one thread that did not need to be dug up.

To quote Pet Semetery :Sometimes dead is better.

Rockin Robbins · 12-04-10, 12:41 PM

Something smells really bad in here. Best to leave it alone.

Go find some really good Strongbad E-mails.

I'm goin' down · 12-04-10, 01:00 PM

i should not have posted.

Rockin Robbins · 12-04-10, 01:16 PM

If you hadn't posted I wouldn't have had an excuse to plug Strongbad E-mails and there would be fewer people who have had a good laugh today.

09-18-10, 03:50 PM	#332
gutted The Old Man Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: New Orleans, LA. Posts: 1,379 Downloads: 487 Uploads: 11	What the hell happened in here? Cliff notes? (I only skimmed the first and second to last pages) __________________ Solution Solver 2.3.2 - Visual Targeting Tools & Aids

09-18-10, 06:28 PM	#335
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	I was his favorite. Uhhhhhh......we'll stick around to clean up the mess. Target destroyed though! __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

09-19-10, 02:46 AM	#337
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Well, that IS the pity. While the specific details of 8010 were garbage, the principle of keeping a target on a constant bearing is a guarantee that if they are approaching your courses will cross because you are on a collision course. But that was the beginning and end of 8010. There was nothing special or desirable about the 8010 relationship. You could not shoot with 8010, just get close to your target. Actually the strategic aim of basic approach strategy is to be able to take advantage of larger and larger AoB's, not restrict yourself to a 20º cone, so his whole idea of 8010 was against the entire body of US Navy tactics as explained in the Submarine Torpedo Fire Control Manual. Ignoring the overall theme of the entire manual, he misused a single formula to imply that there was something special about an 80º bearing and a 10º angle on the bow. Had he been willing to let go of his obsession he would have had a valid approach, but not targeting tactic. The rules would have been much more general and adaptable and people would have thanked him for it. And I get the idea that he's not young. He's apparently had some life experiences, perhaps even in the military, scary as that is... He'd certainly be the commander from hell, unable to benefit from the input of his subordinates. Lots of that sort in business today, so sure of their own rightness than they reject all ideas they have not thought of themselves. Ah, it's the whole Greek tragedy thing... hubris and all that rot... __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

12-04-10, 03:21 AM	#338
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	award This thread should get an award at the end of the year. But what award could do it justice?

12-04-10, 04:48 AM	#339
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	I'd vote for "Ig-Nobel that doesn't get it"! __________________ My site downloads: https://ricojansen.nl/downloads

09-18-10, 10:09 PM	#336
Armistead Rear Admiral Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: on the Dan Posts: 10,880 Downloads: 364 Uploads: 0	Really a pity. I thought it started off rather good and made a good discussion. This thread should've taken a better route mid-way. Someone could've just admitted they tried hard and just lacking. I'm sure many of you brains have gone this route working something out and you hit on something. Nothing wrong with trying, but when it becomes obvious, man up and say good try. Then it became silly. Grey knows he's wrong and just kept at it trying to stir people up. It's possible he could contribute much more, because he ain't dumb, just immature, now he'll forever be a mute.

12-04-10, 05:14 AM	#340
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Wow I missed a lot when I was away.

12-04-10, 09:56 AM	#341
tomoose Grey Wolf Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 930 Downloads: 23 Uploads: 0	joea Hit the 'back' key and step away from the keyboard, don't prod this sleeping bear of a thread, LOL.

12-04-10, 12:04 PM	#342
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,382 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	This was one thread that did not need to be dug up. To quote Pet Semetery :Sometimes dead is better. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

12-04-10, 12:41 PM	#343
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	Something smells really bad in here. Best to leave it alone. Go find some really good Strongbad E-mails. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS

12-04-10, 01:00 PM	#344
I'm goin' down Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Notify command we have entered the Grass Sea Posts: 2,822 Downloads: 813 Uploads: 0	on second thought i should not have posted.

12-04-10, 01:16 PM	#345
Rockin Robbins Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: DeLand, FL Posts: 8,900 Downloads: 135 Uploads: 52	If you hadn't posted I wouldn't have had an excuse to plug Strongbad E-mails and there would be fewer people who have had a good laugh today. __________________ Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks, Slightly Subnuclear Mk 14 & Cutie, Slightly Subnuclear Deck Gun, EZPlot 2.0, TMOPlot, TMOKeys, SH4CMS