Realism- and gameplay-related hardcode fixes for SH3.EXE

[Wolfstriked]

That would be so great if we had a 50/50 chance of a ship turning off engines and waiting.

I think another way to make the game more real would be to allow better hearing for the DD's and to reduce the spread angle of their sonar.In real life the sonar range is 90deg and in game the sonar range is 180 deg.Always looks off to me when I have DD's pinging me and they are traveling parallel to me and same when I am in shallow water right below them and they lose track of me.Hardcode in a realistic length of time where they lose sound contact after depth charges.

Next is the "she's going down" comment and cheers from crew.This just ruins immersion for me.

Realistic pumps wherein you turn off to go silent running and you slowly start to sink is another.

Another would be to change the cannon accuracy stat in relation to the wind speed.In real life cannons in the WW2 era were accurate dependent on the sea state as they did not have weapons that would auto stabilize yet.....or maybe they did

[Hitman]

I think another way to make the game more real would be to allow better hearing for the DD's and to reduce the spread angle of their sonar.In real life the sonar range is 90deg and in game the sonar range is 180 deg.

I think you can already do that with Silent editor, and in fact all supermods have tuned the sensors differently ...

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by Hitman

I think you can already do that with Silent editor, and in fact all supermods have tuned the sensors differently ...

Your right Hitman,its done with Silent Editor.I don't think the super mods have done this though.When your in game with easy targeting enabled you can actually see the sonar cone when you click on a ships icon on the map and they show the 180 deg cone.More importantly though is the sound disruption effect being actually modeled would then give us ability to increase the escorts hearing ability while allowing us a chance to escape.Then make all AI good to excellent.This way when they make there first run they are accurate and you better have evaded by then as best as possible.Right now I have DD's that actually drop DC"s before they reach me...stop releasing as they go over me...and then start releasing again after the pass me.They also do not lead etc.I wanna fear the DD's BUT have a chance to escape.This would make the evade buttons like double knuckle turn etc actually important as the first runs of a DD were probably most accurate.Could be way wrong here though.


This also relates to airplanes.In testing every ship one by one for my almost ready to release mod,I notice that not once did the plane in the mission ever hit a ship.This is like over 200 attempts and the plane gets knocked out of the skies many times.I think that planes should be made to have excellent AI....make you evade with fear.This is not a hardcode tweak,just posting my thoughts.

[Vince82]

Valuable information, Wolfstriked. Thanks.

Realistic pumps wherein you turn off to go silent running and you slowly start to sink is another.

This is actually fixed in Stieblers addon for h.sie's patch. edit: (@ wolfstriked, workaround that's true)

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by Vince82

This is actually fixed in Stieblers addon for h.sie's patch.

Stiebler's patch is a workaround though as he points out himself.Its a constant sinking of sub when at slow speeds irregardless of the pumps being on or off.For me,I do not run it because if my batteries start to go low and I can't gather enough speed to generate lift,I could then turn pumps back on.Really just a small issue though.

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

When your in game with easy targeting enabled you can actually see the sonar cone when you click on a ships icon on the map and they show the 180 deg cone.

Because this is simple flat texture. You can have 90 or 60 deg cone texture but it does not affect the AI sensors.
On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90). You can perform the experiment by setting MaxBearing all sonar to 1 (cone 2 deg). You'll find that still escort will detect your u-boot from the side, not the bow. In contrast MaxBearing and MaxElevation setting for hydrophones works always correctly.

This also relates to airplanes.In testing every ship one by one for my almost ready to release mod,I notice that not once did the plane in the mission ever hit a ship.This is like over 200 attempts and the plane gets knocked out of the skies many times.I think that planes should be made to have excellent AI....make you evade with fear.

That's why supermods such as GWX strengthened aircraft endurance, since it was not possible to reduce the accuracy of antiaircraft weapons. In addition, mods such as "Unnoficial Rocket fix" (for GWX) improved the accuracy of attacks.

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by Olamagato

Because this is simple flat texture. You can have 90 or 60 deg cone texture but it does not affect the AI sensors.
On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90). You can perform the experiment by setting MaxBearing all sonar to 1 (cone 2 deg). You'll find that still escort will detect your u-boot from the side, not the bow. In contrast MaxBearing and MaxElevation setting for hydrophones works always correctly.

That's why supermods such as GWX strengthened aircraft endurance, since it was not possible to reduce the accuracy of antiaircraft weapons. In addition, mods such as "Unnoficial Rocket fix" (for GWX) improved the accuracy of attacks.

Thanks mateprobably hardcoded in and weird that they would do that since the Maxelevation is changeable.

Thanks also for the rocket attack fix tip.Do you also know what setting changes the accuracy of plane attacks using bombs?I set crewrating=4 in the mission I was talking about and after 10 loads the plane still drops bombs way off target.Most likely due to the attack aiming for where the ships are when releasing bombs since the ships are travelling at 14kts.

I figure that the problem with [AI AA guns] setting is that its one number for both surface attacks and air attacks.This means that if you set innaccurate firing to simulate air attacks then the surface attacks will be off.Makes sense to increase the plane endurance.

[Stoli151]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

That would be so great if we had a 50/50 chance of a ship turning off engines and waiting.

It would be awesome. Maybe it can be done another way, but I think it should be a very small chance like 1%. The DD captain would have to be pretty gutsy to try it because he also makes himself a sitting duck, that's why I would think it should be a small chance, but that small chance would be enough to make the player think about it. It would have to be used in bad visibility to be effective. Also, since he would have his engines shut down to make the tactic effective, the mod would have to make sure we get no dragster like acceleration out of the DD once it detects something. Given all these variables, it probably would be a difficult mod to make, even if it is possible at all. But it sure would be a great one if somebody could do it.

Next is the "she's going down" comment and cheers from crew.This just ruins immersion for me.

I don't like that either but I heard that might be hardcoded to where if removed the game will not reward renown for sinkings. To bad we couldn't report the fact we either witnessed the sinking(renown rewarded) or report that we heard torpedoes hit followed by breaking up noises, then upon confirmation of sinking by BDU, renown was awarded with a small chance of no confirmation(no renown). It would give the player more of an incentive to try to stick around the surface and witness the sinking and expose his boat to danger, making a bigger challenge.

[Vince82]

I figure that the problem with [AI AA guns] setting is that its one number for both surface attacks and air attacks.This means that if you set innaccurate firing to simulate air attacks then the surface attacks will be off.Makes sense to increase the plane endurance.

Which file controls this? I would edit it even if this would make the guys handle the deckgun slightly less accurate. Deckgun accuracy isnt that important to me, AA gun is. Slightly less accurate AA gunners would make SH3 more realistic.

[Olamagato]

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

Thanks also for the rocket attack fix tip.Do you also know what setting changes the accuracy of plane attacks using bombs?I set crewrating=4 in the mission

Do not place the aircraft with crew elite. Never. SH3 has a bug described in the GWX manual, which says that the crew = 4 setting is defective.
You can set more aircraft with crew = 3.
Perhaps this bug also applies to escort ships, but I'm not sure.

Originally Posted by Wolfstriked

Next is the "she's going down" comment and cheers from crew.This just ruins immersion for me.

You can disable crew sound and WO text after torped hit but you can see still message stub "WO:".

[Vince82]

On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90).

The whole AI_sensor.dat file doesnt make any sense to me at all. The active sensors are type hydrophone, while the passives are type sonar. The ai_sonar is type hydrophone (what does the file anyway?) and the AI_hydrophone is type sonar.

When a sensor is type hydrophone does that do anything? (perhaps it relates to the AI_sonar?). When u change the max bearing to 5 for example the AI can still find you while ur at lets say 70 bearing (silent running motor off). Or are AI_sonar and AI_hydrophone for your own crew maybe.

Did you ever test having AI_hydrophone AI_sonar and all active sensors max bearing set to a small arc? Dunno Stiebler said that the AI files don't really influence the Asdic sensor.

[Leitender]

Sensors.dat and AI_Sensors.dat imho work as intended. Please take a look at this thread about the mixture of types:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...84066&langid=5

Because this is simple flat texture. You can have 90 or 60 deg cone texture but it does not affect the AI sensors.
On the other hand, I have conducted many tests and changes in the cones horizontal angles (MaxBearing) of all sonars indicate that either the sonar does not participate in the detection of u-boot, or the angle of sonar cone is hardcoded in sh3.exe to 180 deg horizontal (like MaxBearing=90). You can perform the experiment by setting MaxBearing all sonar to 1 (cone 2 deg). You'll find that still escort will detect your u-boot from the side, not the bow. In contrast MaxBearing and MaxElevation setting for hydrophones works always correctly.

olamagato
SH3 uses both sonar and hydrophone together while approaching and attacking a u-boat. Did you switch off the hydrophone sensor when testing the sonar sensor? Maybe you were attacked by the hydrophone still working for the firing solution? I did similar tests, an i could hear him pinging, when i was caught by sonar, and nothing, when attacked by hydropohne.

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by Stoli151

It would be awesome. Maybe it can be done another way, but I think it should be a very small chance like 1%. The DD captain would have to be pretty gutsy to try it because he also makes himself a sitting duck, that's why I would think it should be a small chance, but that small chance would be enough to make the player think about it. It would have to be used in bad visibility to be effective. Also, since he would have his engines shut down to make the tactic effective, the mod would have to make sure we get no dragster like acceleration out of the DD once it detects something. Given all these variables, it probably would be a difficult mod to make, even if it is possible at all. But it sure would be a great one if somebody could do it.




I don't like that either but I heard that might be hardcoded to where if removed the game will not reward renown for sinkings. To bad we couldn't report the fact we either witnessed the sinking(renown rewarded) or report that we heard torpedoes hit followed by breaking up noises, then upon confirmation of sinking by BDU, renown was awarded with a small chance of no confirmation(no renown). It would give the player more of an incentive to try to stick around the surface and witness the sinking and expose his boat to danger, making a bigger challenge.

You make me wonder if they actually did this.Reason is that if you cut your engines and then wait,you might be being viewed thru a tiny periscope at 800meters that is setting up a nice shot....as you pointed out yourself.

And yes YES YES. I love wondering if the ship needs another torpedo.And a message from BDU a day later reporting the two ships you hit but did not follow long enough to verify have in fact went down.

[Wolfstriked]

Originally Posted by Vince82

Which file controls this? I would edit it even if this would make the guys handle the deckgun slightly less accurate. Deckgun accuracy isnt that important to me, AA gun is. Slightly less accurate AA gunners would make SH3 more realistic.

Its in sim.cfg

Originally Posted by Olamagato

Do not place the aircraft with crew elite. Never. SH3 has a bug described in the GWX manual, which says that the crew = 4 setting is defective.
You can set more aircraft with crew = 3.
Perhaps this bug also applies to escort ships, but I'm not sure.


You can disable crew sound and WO text after torped hit but you can see still message stub "WO:".

Copy that....reverting back to 3.Yes I thought of removing the message and the cheers but there are other things that will still remain like not being able to lock onto a ship that is going down.

Originally Posted by Leitender

olamagato
SH3 uses both sonar and hydrophone together while approaching and attacking a u-boat. Did you switch off the hydrophone sensor when testing the sonar sensor? Maybe you were attacked by the hydrophone still working for the firing solution? I did similar tests, an i could hear him pinging, when i was caught by sonar, and nothing, when attacked by hydropohne.

Sometimes I notice they do not ping and use hydrophone to get your course and location but the depths are way off.Actually impressed by that when I see it.Not impressed when they just drop DC's very far from where you are.

Still feel that a change to the system would net a better effect.

Much better hearing so that when close to ships in shallow water they hear you.Must dive deep to get silent running to work.

Smaller ASDIC cone just because I am a realism nut.

And a hardcoded time lapse wherein listening devices get a big penalty for a small amount of time,dependent on how long in real life this penalty actually persists.This is very important for shallow water attacks since its harder to get away with increased DD hearing.

[Leitender]

Just tested sonar cone again, hydrophone switched off, AI_visual restricted to 45° minelevation , flower, 1940 with ASDIC type 123A against Type VIIB at p-depth. With GWX-maxBearing=60° he found me at a distance of roundabout 600m with an offset to his course of 150m. Going down to 25m, he found me at about 800m. Everything allright. Then reduced maxbearing to 1°. The corvette passed me by at a distance of 150m without recognising my presence. I think, the maxbearing value of (at least this special) sonar sensor works how it should, without beeing replaced by a hardcoded sensor - wich exist, i know.

wolfstriked

Afaik, the destroyer´s behaviour (search circles, attack run, listening phases) ist hardcoded, I´ve never seen any settings to configure. So with DC pattern.

ASDIC and hydrophone work together, but not at the same time. How depth finding works...? I don´t know. Take a look into NYGM´s sensors. They are adapted to real life values (at least the underwater sensors).