Here we go again-Ukraine once again

[mapuc]

Thou longer the war will be thou higher is the chance the Ukrainian will get better training and better equipment.

The chance for NATO getting directly involved is also growing higher thou longer the war is.

Markus

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by mapuc

Thou longer the war will be thou higher is the chance the Ukrainian will get better training and better equipment.

Ukraine is not doing as well as a lot of people thnk. Time is on Russia's side.

The chance for NATO getting directly involved is also growing higher thou longer the war is.Markus

I'm waiting. IMHO Nato should already have taken position on Ukraine's eastern border.
If we do not help Ukraine now and let Russia have the Donbas and more, we only freeze the problem, and it will bite us again in five or so years, only then it will be the NATO anyway, with a reinforced russian military.

Russian state television says one of the country's major TV hosts on the channel 'Russia-1'
that the invasion of Ukraine is just a small step on the road to the great war against NATO.

Now hear this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CcX7AVxu...e-ec6df8095af7

The only thing Putin and Russia understands is showing force, now.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Ukraine is not doing as well as a lot of people thnk. Time is on Russia's side.

I'm waiting. IMHO Nato should already have taken position on Ukraine's eastern border.
If we do not help Ukraine now and let Russia have the Donbas and more, we only freeze the problem, and it will bite us again in five or so years, only then it will be the NATO anyway, with a reinforced russian military.

Russian state television says one of the country's major TV hosts on the channel 'Russia-1'
that the invasion of Ukraine is just a small step on the road to the great war against NATO.

Now hear this:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CcX7AVxu...e-ec6df8095af7

The only thing Putin and Russia understands is showing force, now.

True time is on Russian side. This is also why I believe that NATO will get directly involved due to the threat Russia is towards it's neighbours in the west.

Markus

[Skybird]

NATO should stand on Ukraine's eastern border...? Well, with what...?



Maybe we should have secret negotiations with Moldovia and have them in NATO all of a sudden without Russia having time to react, and on the day the membership is annloucned and creates facts o the ground NASTO forces shuld quckstart and rush intio Moldovia and into its province Transnistria as well (its part of Moldovia, after all) - and then have the Russians stunned when they move west of Odessa.



However, that is all only academic becasue the embarassing truth is: we do not have the forces, the material and the ammo reserves to do this. Neither Germany, nor all European forces together. We have completely ruined our military structure in Europe since 1989.



Right now, America delivers more weapons to the Ukraine than all European nations together.



Without America once again being with us, we could pack up our things and say goodbye to our role in history.



Sooner or later, some n utcase like Trump or even Trump himself will come back to command in Washington, and sooner or later even without that the US will refoucs on its real primary object of attention: Asia, and the Pacific. The days when we could snuggle up to the great protector of poyur safetyx and wellbeing, are com,ing to an end. And not only are we not prepared for the time when that arranbeg,menbt ends, we also may find out that reality does not procid eus the chance to learn to adapt to the new sitruation. Debts. Recession. FIAT currency collapse. Global disrutpion of supply chains. Energy dependency, just shifting from Russia to other regimes. Ressources shortage. Environmental erosion. Sweet water crisis.



It could very well be that we already disucss here the music proram for the band thjat later this night will be sent on the deck of the sinkling Titanic we are on and we just refuse to realise it. In any case, it is indisputable that our European ship is already badly tilted, and that more and more people already have gotten wet feet.

[Dargo]

Russia Is Losing a War Against Hackers Stealing Huge Amounts of Data
Dozens of Russian companies and government agencies have been hacked in apparent retribution for the invasion of Ukraine.

https://theintercept.com/2022/04/22/...ta-ukraine-war

Anonymous OpRussia

[mapuc]

Tomorrow and the day after tomorrow many Danish driver will see something special- From 3 or was it 4 different places in Jutland and other places in Denmark several hundred tanks, AFV and other military vehicle will hit the road-their destination is Køge havn(koege harbour)-where they will be shipped to Letland

Only once has this happened before and then it was on train..where the destination was Saudi-Arabia 1989-1991.

Markus

[Dargo]

Originally Posted by mapuc

True time is on Russian side. This is also why I believe that NATO will get directly involved due to the threat Russia is towards it's neighbours in the west.

Markus

Russia is trying to pinch off a Ukrainian salient with two major strikes from the north and the south. This will cost them a lot of material and personnel, they are already sending broken equipment back to Russia for repair. This new attack will be long not days, it could go badly if Russia can not send enough new personnel or when their supply gets in problems. Russia can not send in conscripts because that would mean it is a war what it is not it is only an operation.

[Dargo]

NATO will not directly get involved if itself not get attacked, NATO is no army to invade it is a defensive army and an invasion would take at least more than 6 months. Members that will do proxy war, yes that is already taken place for years in Ukraine.

[Dargo]

With the arrival of M777s, PzH 2000s, and Caesars, NATO has demonstrated that they are willing to give front-line, modern heavy equipment to the Ukrainians. This has many implications and shows a willingness to not just have Ukraine hold on, but win.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

NATO will not directly get involved if itself not get attacked, NATO is no army to invade it is a defensive army and an invasion would take at least more than 6 months. Members that will do proxy war, yes that is already taken place for years in Ukraine.

It's a hunch I have that sooner or later we will see NATO soldier in west Ukraine and near Kyiv...Not to attack Russia but to be first line of defence if Russia decide to take rest of Ukraine...again.

However something tells me they will go north after they have taken these two area Donbass and Luhansk.

Markus

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Dargo

With the arrival of M777s, PzH 2000s, and Caesars, NATO has demonstrated that they are willing to give front-line, modern heavy equipment to the Ukrainians. This has many implications and shows a willingness to not just have Ukraine hold on, but win.

This made me remember another war a very long war.
From memory
First USA send weapons...later they send advisor...then some more advisor...then soldiers....then combat soldiers

Markus

[Jeff-Groves]

Originally Posted by mapuc

This made me remember another war a very long war.
From memory
First USA send weapons...later they send advisor...then some more advisor...then soldiers....then combat soldiers

Markus

Would that be the one many people in the US Congress dodged?

[FUBAR295]

I participated in that adventure.. Started with Eisenhower, continued with Kennedy and Johnson and finally ended with Nixon.

[Skybird]

How Bubble-Olaf and the SPD squirm and shirk from their cowardly appeasement policy is no longer just embarrassing or unworthy: it is disgusting. Especially since the clear majority of Germans is against their Poltik and theirne betrayal of the Ukriane, this has now already shown several representative surveys, in which the absolute and clear majority

FOCUS has this opinion piece:


The behavior of the SPD leadership in the Ukraine war is to people who believed in the good in the SPD what the abuse scandal is to Catholics: a trust-shattering failure.
(...)
I think the Ukraine war is to people close to social democracy what the abuse scandal is to Catholics: first you look away as long as you can because you don't want to admit what you have to hear and read. Then a big hole opens up in which everything threatens to disappear that until just now constituted the foundation of the faith.

It is a tragedy what the social democrats are currently performing. Every day there are new explanations why they cannot supply Ukraine with the weapons it is pleading for.

Either there are not enough tanks. Or the Bundeswehr needs the tanks itself. Or there is a lack of approval from the Americans. Or the other allies haven't all said yes yet. Or the Ministry of Economics is unfortunately lacking signatures on export licenses. Or the Ukrainians cannot operate the heavy weapons at all. The discussion about the necessary weapons training alone is now taking longer than it would have taken for the training itself. Instead, new lists are constantly appearing of everything that will be delivered, but they never include the weapons that the Ukrainian government is desperately calling for.

All this has nothing to do with the SPD, which my mother had joined. The people at the top like to refer to Willy Brandt's policy of détente. But Brandt knew exactly who he was dealing with on the other side. Brandt had been governing mayor of Berlin when the Communists built the Wall. Before that, he had fought the Nazis. If he pushed for Ostpolitik, it was to overcome the division of Europe. It would never have occurred to him to want to appease a power that sometimes respected peace treaties, sometimes tore them up, as it saw fit.

At the beginning, I was hopeful. I was impressed by the way Olaf Scholz turned the wheel three days after the start of the war and declared the end of two decades of German policy toward Russia. It gave me back faith in the party of my childhood, which always stood against aggression and aggressors.

But the longer the matter drags on, the greater my doubts that Scholz was serious about announcing a change of era. In the meantime, I have the impression that the main thing is to invent obstacles until the matter is decided without German involvement. If Ukraine then no longer exists: not nice. But better any peace than none at all, is the logic.

What the people in the chancellor's office seem to have in mind is something like Swiss neutrality. They might even have the majority of Germans on their side. If the price of gas continues to rise, the mood could quickly change. What the chancellor's strategists overlook is that Europe's largest economic power cannot simply hide from the demands of history like a mountain people. If it does try to do so, more of Europe's peaks will slide than an Alpine peak.

When did the SPD go astray like this? The chairman of the parliamentary group in the Bundestag, Rolf Mützenich, spends more time fretting about the Ukrainian ambassador's impertinences than about Putin's plans for destruction. Longtime party leader and Foreign Minister Sigmar Gabriel is already pondering in an essay how to find a "cold peace" with Russia. The former mayor of Berlin, Michael Müller, warns against "escalation" because, as is well known, violence always comes from both sides.

One argument is that one would only prolong the agony of the Ukrainian people by supplying weapons. It would be better to surrender and thus achieve a quick peace than to go to war for months. Apart from the fact that it is morally very dubious when the spectators advise the victim of a violent act to keep still so that it will be over sooner: The pictures of Butscha have shown what this peace would look like. From pacifism to abysmal cynicism is sometimes only a small step.

Another argument is that Germany must do everything to prevent a nuclear war. But if one trusts Putin to detonate nuclear weapons, shouldn't one do everything possible to inflict a defeat on him before he reaches for a NATO member? First the denazification of Ukraine, then the denazification of all of Europe, or so Russian news agencies proclaim.

The SPD rightly prides itself on its glorious history. There is no anniversary in which it is not remembered that it was the Social Democrats who stood united against the Nazis' Enabling Act in 1933. Let us be glad that people like Mützenich and Gabriel were not yet born when it came to doing the right thing at the decisive moment.

One suspects how they would have argued. They stood firmly on the side of the democrats, he said, but they also had to think beyond the day. The escalation spiral must not be fueled further, he said. Now is the time to think about diplomatic solutions, he said. There could only be peace with Hitler, not peace against Hitler.

What will the post-war world think of the SPD's strange appeasement policy? Olaf Scholz may later boast of having kept Germany out of the war. Perhaps he will even be among the first to reconnect with Russia when the war is decided.

But our neighbors will not have forgotten who opposed Putin - and who only pretended to fight evil.


Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)


Verlogenes Pack. They already dream of bettering relations with their "socialist" buddies in Russia again. Life lies die slowly or not at all. That is why they are called that.

[Jimbuna]