[REL] Thomsen's Ships V3.1 is out! All credits to H.SIE (10/12/2008)

[nikbear]

I'm finding with this mod that in servere weather that ships hardly move,On my last patrol I've come across ships making less than 2knts and its making them sitting ducks:hmm:The same problem also happens in convoys, shoot up a couple of ships is making the rest of the convoy grind to a holt ,which then makes them back up and makes them easy to hit:hmmon't get me wrong,you are moving in the right direction,I just think it needs more work

[Sag75]

Originally Posted by nikbear

I'm finding with this mod that in servere weather that ships hardly move,On my last patrol I've come across ships making less than 2knts and its making them sitting ducks:hmm:The same problem also happens in convoys, shoot up a couple of ships is making the rest of the convoy grind to a holt ,which then makes them back up and makes them easy to hit:hmmon't get me wrong,you are moving in the right direction,I just think it needs more work

I'm agree..

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Yes yes yes yes... I know!

1. Ships halt cos if one stop, all stop. They follow the ship ahead.

2. The fix for all these problems have already emerged, it's all about multiplying by 3 the ammount of actual engine power. Just need time to do it, or help from anybody with avaliable time. Pretty easy job.

[Sag75]

sorry PT! they're just observations

[nikbear]

And I'm able to do any testingyou can do it PT

[h.sie]

hi PT,

my program is ready (pre-alpha version) and it could do the job for you. I have GWX 2.1 installed - this would be the basis for the modification.

you just have to determine the rules, e.g.

eng_power = 30% of orig value

drag = 0.02 for UnitType 100, 101, 102
drag = 0.03 for UnitType 11, 12, 13 and so on.

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by h.sie

hi PT,

my program is ready (pre-alpha version) and it could do the job for you. I have GWX 2.1 installed - this would be the basis for the modification.

you just have to determine the rules, e.g.

eng_power = 30% of orig value

drag = 0.02 for UnitType 100, 101, 102
drag = 0.03 for UnitType 11, 12, 13 and so on.

h.sie

GREAT!

That's what I've been waiting for.

The mod is great all around already, we just need to fix the eng_power.

Try this: Apply the changes in my last mod version, add 300% to the eng_power to ALL ships.

300% should multiply by 3 times the actuall amount. So, if a ship has 2000 of eng_power with chips v2.0, after the modification it should have 6000.

Do it and let's upload the file for people start beta-testing!

You're the man, H.sie!

[h.sie]

hi pt,

the problem is, that your mod V2 has some bugs and did not reduce eng_power to 10% for all ships. some ships (e.g. a passenger ship) remained at 100% and NBB_Nelson at 30% (see a former posting from me). if i apply 300% to all now, some ships will have more power than they had in stock sh3. the little bugs of your V2 will remain and propagate.

i'm used to do precise work and i strongly recommend to use a clean GWX2.1 as the basis of your new version and to define new rules for the modification. no old bugs can remain this way and for me it's much easier to do, because I don't have to debug your V2 prior to run my program on it.

if you don't like my idea, I have to debug your mod manually, which will take time and the time-advantage of my program is gone.

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by h.sie

hi pt,

the problem is, that your mod V2 has some bugs and did not reduce eng_power to 10% for all ships. some ships (e.g. a passenger ship) remained at 100% and NBB_Nelson at 30% (see a former posting from me). if i apply 300% to all now, some ships will have more power than they had in stock sh3. the little bugs of your V2 will remain and propagate.

i'm used to do precise work and i strongly recommend to use a clean GWX2.1 as the basis of your new version and to define new rules for the modification. no old bugs can remain this way and for me it's much easier to do, because I don't have to debug your V2 prior to run my program on it.

if you don't like my idea, I have to debug your mod manually, which will take time and the time-advantage of my program is gone.

h.sie

Your theory is good, but on the practice it's not that easy.

1. If we use stock GWX 2.1 to do the changes, we won't be covering the community ships mod.

2. If we use the current V2, we only need to change one setting, all the others are already ok.

3. No problem with the 30% BB or the few units with 100% engine. The 30% BB was a fix for a low value of gwx, and the 100% engine power units are vessels with very low weight, below 100 tons. If that's the case, we can manually fix them later, since they are few (around 10).

4. If you want to do all ships from square one, you would need to separate all of them manually into 5 groups: Battleships and alikes, destroyers, destroyer escorts, merchants and ships with less them 300 tons. For group one, engine power 30%, rudder drag from 0,03 to 0,025, LR drag 0,75 and UD drag 1,0, and GC 0,1. For the second group, all the same except the rudder drag, which is 0,03. The third group (escorts), same as destroyers, except rudder drag (0,04). For merchants, same as the others, except rudder drag (0,02). For ships with less than 300 tons, no changes what so ever. They are too small, so they can accelerate fast and they pitch and roll a lot.

Now, with all this information, tell me: which is easier? What do you prefer?

It's your tool... You decide.

[h.sie]

Hi PT,

I think I'll install the community ships mod over GWX2.1. This will be the basis for the mod V3. I don't have to divide the five categories manually, because my program can analyse the UnitType Value (Destroyer, Battleship, Escort) of the .cfg file and it is easy to add functionality to also analyse the tonnage.

Depending on UnitType and Tonnage, your rules will then be executed to the five groups.

Two questions remain:

1) For Battleships and alikes you said: drag from 0.025 to 0.03. Is it okay to take 0.0275 which is the average value of both?

2) In most of your sim-files, mass was set to zero (or was it the displacement value? I don't remember.....). Is that important? If mass=0, SH3 sets mass=displacement. Shall I set mass to zero again for V3 or shall it remain unchanged?

By the way: The next 2 days I'm busy so that I ask for patience. I'll give you the mod, when I'm ready with it so you can test it and make some manual corrections if necessary.

h.sie

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by h.sie

Hi PT,

I think I'll install the community ships mod over GWX2.1. This will be the basis for the mod V3. I don't have to divide the five categories manually, because my program can analyse the UnitType Value (Destroyer, Battleship, Escort) of the .cfg file and it is easy to add functionality to also analyse the tonnage.

Great!

Depending on UnitType and Tonnage, your rules will then be executed to the five groups.

Two questions remain:

1) For Battleships and alikes you said: drag from 0.025 to 0.03. Is it okay to take 0.0275 which is the average value of both?

The normal for GWX/Community ships will be 0,03 for rudder drag of battleships. 0,0275 as you suggest, won't be too different from 0,03, but since battleships have almost the same turning radius as destroyers, sure, you can do that.

2) In most of your sim-files, mass was set to zero (or was it the displacement value? I don't remember.....). Is that important? If mass=0, SH3 sets mass=displacement. Shall I set mass to zero again for V3 or shall it remain unchanged?

That's not a problem. If the displacement is zero, the game uses the mass. If the mass is zero, the game uses the displacement. If you want to insert value in both, both values should be the same, so it's redundant. Just leave it as it is.

By the way: The next 2 days I'm busy so that I ask for patience. I'll give you the mod, when I'm ready with it so you can test it and make some manual corrections if necessary.

Not a problem. It's a huge help you're giving to this community, take all the time you need.

h.sie

Above in colour.

[johan_d]

So, then the Netherlands is the best option to go..

Cold, rainy, nice people.. and ...

[Philipp_Thomsen]

... and FREE SEX IN THE PARKS!

:rotfl:

You make a big mistake by averageing units.

Find the Happy Point then adjust each unit to match.
Short cutting by AVERAGEING?
That's lazy!
So what your figures should be is,
if reduction by 30%?
Check each ship, reduce by calculated figure.
Then TEST the heck out of it!!
Average will bite you on the naughty parts!!

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Originally Posted by privateer

You make a big mistake by averageing units.

Find the Happy Point then adjust each unit to match.
Short cutting by AVERAGEING?
That's lazy!
So what your figures should be is,
if reduction by 30%?
Check each ship, reduce by calculated figure.
Then TEST the heck out of it!!
Average will bite you on the naughty parts!!

Yes, each ship should have it's own settings, including engine power.

But I don't have much time for foreplay...