[REL] Operation Monsun - Page 217

Sailor Steve · 04-12-14, 09:57 AM

When I am finally able to start playing again I will be using OM, so as far as I'm concerned it will never be dead. On the other hand, Lurker hasn't visited the forums in five months.

I know he is very proprietary about his work, and I don't blame him. On the other hand (again), OM leaves a lot to be desired. One example: The Type II u-boat has 44 crew members, whereas in real life they only carried 25-28, depending on type. There are some other areas in which I consider it unfinished, and I wish he had completed it before retiring. I'm not sure why he would object to other people fixing certain things.

GlobalExplorer · 04-12-14, 10:06 AM

Yes, I think it is great, but with several years on the belt, some things could be improved.#

And as to getting his consent, perhaps someone should contact him. I won't, for we seem to be intellectually incompatible, like I'm thinking in circles and he's thinking in squares

I still love what he did that's for sure and I would like to see his mod live on.

Admiral Halsey · 04-12-14, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

And finally, the big question of the Turmumbau.

I've been working on the bug for a couple of months now. I though he might have accidentally left some US conning tower lines in the files but no luck yet. If you'd be willing to help with that i'd appreciate it.

GlobalExplorer · 04-13-14, 05:17 AM

I found no mistakes in lurkers config files, they are almost exact copies of the original files. The problem could be in the dat's which are much less organized, if not to say, a bit sloppy. I experimented with the upcge files and unlocked additional towers. They would show up fine, but had no crew on them and displayed the "cannot comply order" bug.

The best hope we have is to reproduce the bug first, for example taking arbitrary towers from SHIII/SHIV, configure the game to use it and see when the bugs materialize by itself. When the bug can be reproduced, more people could look at the problem, search for causes and finally a solution.

A much simpler solution, and what I already suggested in another thread, would be to configure the game to use only one conning tower permanently. Unfortunately this opens up new problems for me, for example radar does not work on VIIC conning tower 1 (there is no radar antenna and no R01 node in Turm7c_1_hd.dat). I would still prefer to play with the same tower and without radar, rather than lose the ability to continue at some point.

Admiral Halsey · 04-14-14, 08:52 PM

Personally i'd prefer having the late war conning tower be the permanent one. It's hard enough as is to survive beyond late 43 and taking away the RWR isn't a good idea. Another thing needing to be fixed is the IX progression. If you start the war in September with the IX available you're stuck with it for the rest of the war. Also instead of getting the Type XXIII as the last new U-Boat you can have it should probably be the Type XXI.(No offence to Lurker but i'd rather not be stuck with either a VIIC/41, IXD2 or a XXIII as my only U-Boat choices for the last few months of the war when the XXI is available.) Oh and the Neutral nations need to be fixed. I know for a fact that you can have neutral nations in SH4 since while playing this with OMEGU Spain and Norway ships display as the green Neutral map icons. I'm tired of getting blasted by American ships with deck guns in September of 39 Dadgummit!

lurker_hlb3 · 04-18-14, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Something else. Perhaps you have noticed that in his readme Lurker has forbidden any further development of his mod.

Actually, I will admit it. He flamed me in the past for suggesting that anything could be added to the mod by anyone but himself. He also wrote some stuff that makes me believe that asking for his permission in this regard would be pointless.

I would therefore like to clarify the situation, as far as I see it.

Here is the relevant passage which I am talking about (ironically, it can be found under "permissions"):

My take is that lurker can make such claims only for things which he created. Only files created by lurker are his intellectually property. Extended claims to files contained in the mod which are derivative versions of files created by UBISoft or other people are irrelevant. This is based on the principle that you cannot take something that is already under someone's license (UBI) and put it under a new license.

".. including any ideas, strategies, philosophies, methods, arrangements, etc found within the above mods may be used by any one, for any reason, .."

this part is imo completely irrelevant, because if you want to protect "ideas, strategies, philosophies, methods, arrangements, etc" you need to get a patent for it.

But when lurker created new files, e.g. ".mis" files, which were not there in the original release of Silent Hunter, his legal claim is valid, so you need to get his permission to modify these files (and good luck with that).

So that no one gets me wrong, the situation with mods is complicated and all extreme notions are wrong. It always has to be decided on a file by file basis.

My take is this: modding and adding to files that were included in the original version of the game, or created by someone else that permitted refactoring / modifications, is ok, and always will be ok, as far as modding was ok in the first place. No matter what someone else added to the files, they are and remain UBI's property. But if files were not created or copyrighted by UBI and are solely "included" with the mod, I would be very careful.

So: Modding things that lurker created (an example would be the campaign layers) is NOT legal without his permission as stated in the readme. But adding campaign layers (.MIS files), and adding extra lines to CampaignGE.cfg does not fall under his intellectual property. It is also not illegal to reference to a ship or piece of equipment, or even a file included in the mod from another file, because a reference is only a string of characters, and not protected by intellectual property. Lest anyone believes no one can use the string 'M01A' anymore, because it was used in the mod. You can.

I hope I have not offend anyone and if lurker wants to come back to the scene, I'd be very glad, willing to help him and eat humble pie. But I think we have reached the point where it's time to discuss openly the future for this mod, and the ATO side of Silent Hunter 4 in general.

I have retired from modding, how ever I give my "permission" here and now that you guys can change "what every" you want in OM or OMEGU. FYI , the reason for the "hard core permissions" file was because of on going issues with the GWX mod makers from SH3 back in the day ( 2008/9 ) but since I've retired in 2010 those issues are now OBE

Leigh

Sailor Steve · 04-19-14, 08:57 AM

That is very gracious and kind of you. It's good to see you again.

G7eT2 · 04-19-14, 04:47 PM

Thanks again lurker_hlb3 for Operation Monsun and all the other excellent modding you have done.

Apollinaire · 04-20-14, 11:15 AM

Maybe a stupid question, but how do I install this mod?

I have downloaded OpsMonsun_V705, and I have unzipped it (using 7zip) to a standard folder. But what do I do next, or have I missed something?

Many thanks in advance.

mido · 04-20-14, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apollinaire

Maybe a stupid question, but how do I install this mod?

I have downloaded OpsMonsun_V705, and I have unzipped it (using 7zip) to a standard folder. But what do I do next, or have I missed something?

Many thanks in advance.

You should read the very first post of this thread...

Apollinaire · 04-20-14, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mido

You should read the very first post of this thread...

I did, yet I do not understand. It says "install", still there is no install option.

Apollinaire · 04-20-14, 04:13 PM

I'd happily donate 20 euros to subsim just for a step-by-step guide to downloading this mod. I have downloaded the generic mod manager, yet there is no way to install it (no install button) as it is a zip file.

G7eT2 · 04-20-14, 06:39 PM

Hello Apollinaire,

You need to install JSGME in the same place as the Silent Hunter 4/Data folder.

Then move the following unzipped files to the Mods folder :
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMv720_Patch5
and the OMEGU files if you want them

Run JSGME and enable the files in the correct order.

Before taking the steps above you might want to use the MultiSH4 program to create separate Silent Hunter 4 installation for Operation Monsun. This is not essential but it allows you to have the stock game and a modded game at the same time.

Apollinaire · 04-21-14, 02:43 AM

Thank you.

This is where I intend to Unzip the GME:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\Data

Correct?

G7eT2 · 04-21-14, 05:02 AM

Apollinaire,

Sorry my post was a bit confusing.

You should end up with :

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\JSGME

Upon installation JSGME will create a Mods folder :

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\Mods

The unzipped Op Monsun files go in that Mods folder.

04-12-14, 09:57 AM	#3241
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	When I am finally able to start playing again I will be using OM, so as far as I'm concerned it will never be dead. On the other hand, Lurker hasn't visited the forums in five months. I know he is very proprietary about his work, and I don't blame him. On the other hand (again), OM leaves a lot to be desired. One example: The Type II u-boat has 44 crew members, whereas in real life they only carried 25-28, depending on type. There are some other areas in which I consider it unfinished, and I wish he had completed it before retiring. I'm not sure why he would object to other people fixing certain things. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-12-14, 10:06 AM	#3242
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	Yes, I think it is great, but with several years on the belt, some things could be improved.# And as to getting his consent, perhaps someone should contact him. I won't, for we seem to be intellectually incompatible, like I'm thinking in circles and he's thinking in squares I still love what he did that's for sure and I would like to see his mod live on. __________________

04-13-14, 05:17 AM	#3244
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	I found no mistakes in lurkers config files, they are almost exact copies of the original files. The problem could be in the dat's which are much less organized, if not to say, a bit sloppy. I experimented with the upcge files and unlocked additional towers. They would show up fine, but had no crew on them and displayed the "cannot comply order" bug. The best hope we have is to reproduce the bug first, for example taking arbitrary towers from SHIII/SHIV, configure the game to use it and see when the bugs materialize by itself. When the bug can be reproduced, more people could look at the problem, search for causes and finally a solution. A much simpler solution, and what I already suggested in another thread, would be to configure the game to use only one conning tower permanently. Unfortunately this opens up new problems for me, for example radar does not work on VIIC conning tower 1 (there is no radar antenna and no R01 node in Turm7c_1_hd.dat). I would still prefer to play with the same tower and without radar, rather than lose the ability to continue at some point. __________________

04-14-14, 08:52 PM	#3245
Admiral Halsey Best Admiral in the USN Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: USS Enterprise (CV-6) Posts: 1,740 Downloads: 317 Uploads: 0	Personally i'd prefer having the late war conning tower be the permanent one. It's hard enough as is to survive beyond late 43 and taking away the RWR isn't a good idea. Another thing needing to be fixed is the IX progression. If you start the war in September with the IX available you're stuck with it for the rest of the war. Also instead of getting the Type XXIII as the last new U-Boat you can have it should probably be the Type XXI.(No offence to Lurker but i'd rather not be stuck with either a VIIC/41, IXD2 or a XXIII as my only U-Boat choices for the last few months of the war when the XXI is available.) Oh and the Neutral nations need to be fixed. I know for a fact that you can have neutral nations in SH4 since while playing this with OMEGU Spain and Norway ships display as the green Neutral map icons. I'm tired of getting blasted by American ships with deck guns in September of 39 Dadgummit! Last edited by Admiral Halsey; 04-14-14 at 09:25 PM.

04-19-14, 08:57 AM	#3247
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	That is very gracious and kind of you. It's good to see you again. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

04-19-14, 04:47 PM	#3248
G7eT2 Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 23 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 2	Thanks again lurker_hlb3 for Operation Monsun and all the other excellent modding you have done.

04-20-14, 11:15 AM	#3249
Apollinaire Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 9 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Maybe a stupid question, but how do I install this mod? I have downloaded OpsMonsun_V705, and I have unzipped it (using 7zip) to a standard folder. But what do I do next, or have I missed something? Many thanks in advance.

04-20-14, 04:13 PM	#3252
Apollinaire Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 9 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'd happily donate 20 euros to subsim just for a step-by-step guide to downloading this mod. I have downloaded the generic mod manager, yet there is no way to install it (no install button) as it is a zip file.

04-20-14, 06:39 PM	#3253
G7eT2 Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 23 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 2	Hello Apollinaire, You need to install JSGME in the same place as the Silent Hunter 4/Data folder. Then move the following unzipped files to the Mods folder : OpsMonsun_V705 OMv705_to_V720 OMv720_Patch5 and the OMEGU files if you want them Run JSGME and enable the files in the correct order. Before taking the steps above you might want to use the MultiSH4 program to create separate Silent Hunter 4 installation for Operation Monsun. This is not essential but it allows you to have the stock game and a modded game at the same time.

04-21-14, 02:43 AM	#3254
Apollinaire Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 9 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Thank you. This is where I intend to Unzip the GME: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\Data Correct?

04-21-14, 05:02 AM	#3255
G7eT2 Watch Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 23 Downloads: 70 Uploads: 2	Apollinaire, Sorry my post was a bit confusing. You should end up with : C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\JSGME Upon installation JSGME will create a Mods folder : C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Silent Hunters wolves of the pacific\Mods The unzipped Op Monsun files go in that Mods folder.