GWX (Grey Wolves eXpansion Mod)

[donw]

Originally Posted by deadparrot

You were right. 4 out of 7 didn't come trough.

Originally Posted by jimbuna

9 times out of 10 it's not the files you've d/l but the fact your initial install was not on a 100% unmodded game install.

Love it when I beat the odds! Maybe I need to go visit the local Casino :hmm:
:rotfl:

[Bonfleck]

I'm sure this info is listed somewhere already but the seach feature for the forum doesn't seem to be very effective for me. I'm curious if A; my stock 1.4b career files can be transplanted to a GWX version and where are they located precisely?, B: If I can have two versions of SH3 installed on my machine (a stock one and a GWX version) and if so how? and C: If there are any hot keys or scenarios I should stay away from that might cause a game to crash or lock up? So far my only lock up occurred when attacking a ship at anchor in a harbor. Upon viewing the target in the UZO when the torpedo impacted I had the "lock" button pressed and that's when my game did the jitterbug lock-up requiring a reboot. Also, any advice for using the search feature so I don't have to bother people with questions that have been answered a dozen times would be great. Thanks, B

[donw]

Originally Posted by Bonfleck

B: If I can have two versions of SH3 installed on my machine (a stock one and a GWX version) and if so how?

I'm sorta busy Mate, but can help with this one...this is taken from the download section here on Subsim.com..

MultiSH3 (278KB): this utility that will change the folder name in My Documents that Silent Hunter 3 uses to save campaign and career information. It does this by patching a file in the game's root folder called FileManager.dll. Stock SH3 is hard-coded to save this information in a folder called My Documents\SH3, but given the large number of supermods and other mods it may be desirable to be able to separate careers by saving them in different folders. For example, you might want to have a stock SH3 1.4b installation, a TGW installation and an NYGM installation, each with their own career information.

The obvious benefit of this is that it prevents any possible confusion over which campaigns and careers belong to which installation. Mod developers may find it useful to have a known safe copy of SH3 and one or more development copies, each completely separate. Gamers may find it useful to be able to remove, repair or update supermods without having to uninstall the lot and start again (anyone who has needed to modify their Grey Wolves installation should see the benefit of this immediately).

And let me clarify something real quick...it does not change the folder name in my documents..You need to make a folder there, for your 2nd version of SH3 to use...(it HAS to be 3 characters long only)...then...run this program (from within the game folder that is to be your alternate install)...and it will adjust the game to save your career data to this new folder

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Just to add to DonW's bit:

Bonfleck, old careers from previous installations of SH3 or GWX are not compatible with GWX 2.0.

[donw]

Originally Posted by Bonfleck

C: If there are any hot keys or scenarios I should stay away from that might cause a game to crash or lock up?

I might as well throw my 2 cents in on this last one...

For every problem that someone here has encountered, 10 others have said it's never happened to them. So the best we can offer, is post as much of "your" particular issue here, and somebody I'm sure will jump in and try to help you find a solution.

As for your posted lockup, I don't recall reading about anybody else reporting a lockup under those conditions, so you'll just have to wait for it to occur again, and post here as much info as you can...the mission name, or career...list all the mods you have loaded..exactly what you were doing at the time...and anything else you can think of to allow us to track it down

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Bonfleck

I'm sure this info is listed somewhere already but the seach feature for the forum doesn't seem to be very effective for me. I'm curious if A; my stock 1.4b career files can be transplanted to a GWX version and where are they located precisely?, B: If I can have two versions of SH3 installed on my machine (a stock one and a GWX version) and if so how? and C: If there are any hot keys or scenarios I should stay away from that might cause a game to crash or lock up? So far my only lock up occurred when attacking a ship at anchor in a harbor. Upon viewing the target in the UZO when the torpedo impacted I had the "lock" button pressed and that's when my game did the jitterbug lock-up requiring a reboot. Also, any advice for using the search feature so I don't have to bother people with questions that have been answered a dozen times would be great. Thanks, B

Here's a few pearls of wisdom from my archive re: multiple installs

Install of Multiple Versions

1)Complete a fresh install of SH3 + 1.4b as normal.
2)Create a copy of the program folder & rename as required.
3)Install your mod of choice to the renamed version.
4)Create and rename shortcuts as required.
5)Use MultiSH3 to create separate save locations for each install.

SH3 Commander & Multiple Installs
It is recommended to have a separate install of Commander for each different install of SH3.
1)Install SH3Commander and rename the program folder to suit.
2)Rename each SH3Cmdr shortcut as required.
3)You will need to use the l: switch to point SH3Cmdr to the right installation.

Here's an example of the l: switch for dual installs, just tailor it to fit.....

Right click on the SH3Cmdr shortcut & choose properties.

Target
"C:\Program Files\SH3 Commander-GWX\SH3Cmdr.exe" /l:"C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\Silent HunterIII-GWX"

Start in
"C:\Program Files\SH3 Commander-GWX"

[Bonfleck]

Thanks mates..........Ahoy! B

[Kilhmar]

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

At one time or another, virtually every aspect of GWX has come under fire as being 'unrealistic' for 'this reason' or 'that reason.'

GWX is in no way “under fire” from me. It is an astounding achievement and a great improvement of the game. I just don’t agree with a few of the choices you have made; I’m sure you’ll agree that pleasing everybody with everything is quite impossible.

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

Before continuing onwards to discuss such matters as the manufacturing disparities of various ammunition, I invite you to start your own thread... and to discontinue hijacking this one.

Don’t worry, this will be my final post in this thread.

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

You have stated your opinions and carried out your arguments... and we have modelled matters in-game to meet our equally valid interpretation of available data resources... in light of game limitations that you have not accounted for.

I have accounted for the game limitations that I have encountered. However I have already made a number of successful tweaks to my game, and I plan to do some further testing. I will see if I can find time to make a JSGME mod out of it. And as for when I started playing SH3 … when you were browsing the PC game section and found SH3 I was racking up tonnage in the Atlantic . I pre-ordered the European version (with Star Force and everything, curse them!). I’ve been using GWX 1.0-1.3 since you guys released it and I’ve been very pleased with what you have done for the game. I’ve only just recently decided to join the SH3 community since I was quite involved in WWII air war communities, but now that I have toned my involvement a bit down over there…

“The GWX team believes “realism” is in the mind of the beholder.”

So true.

[Jimbuna]

“The GWX team believes “realism” is in the mind of the beholder.”

I'm a member of the team your refering to and attaching such a blanket subjective label to

Which definition of 'realism' are you subscribing to here ?

1) An opposed to nominalism, the doctrine that genera and species are real things or entities, existing independently of our conceptions.

2) Interest in or concern for the actual or real, as distinguished from the abstract, speculative.

3) The doctrine that universals have a real objective existence.

4) The doctrine that objects of sense perception have an existence independent of the act of perception.

I'm really quite intrigued here :hmm:

One of the doctrines in life I purposely adhere to is: 'None of us are as clever as all of us'

Mutual self respect and tolerance go a long way in this community of ours.

We all owe it to each other.

Don't presume to think and speak on my behalf.

But most importantly of all........................KINDLY STOP BAITING .....your brief posting history is quite revealing.

If you've issues around the GWX mod, that's fine.....change it to suit.

Just get on with it or play stock or another mod.....the choice is yours.

I wish you well in whatever choice you decide upon

[onelifecrisis]

Originally Posted by jimbuna

mutual self respect

Is that something for people who have multiple personality disorder? :p

[Kilhmar]

Um ... Jjimbuna, - “The GWX team believes “realism” is in the mind of the beholder.” - is a direct quote from the GWX 2.0 manual. Which is why I used the quotation marks.

If you do not subscribe to that motto then that is your business, but you should at least be aware of what is written in your own manual.



Your comments on my person and my "posting history" is quite unfair and certainly not appreciated.


Good night.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Kilhmar

Um ... Jjimbuna, - “The GWX team believes “realism” is in the mind of the beholder.” - is a direct quote from the GWX 2.0 manual. Which is why I used the quotation marks.

If you do not subscribe to that motto then that is your business, but you should at least be aware of what is written in your own manual.



Your comments on my person and my "posting history" is quite unfair and certainly not appreciated.


Good night.

I am fully aware of the source of the quote.

The context of your use of the quote is what I believe to be questionable.

[Kpt. Lehmann]

Originally Posted by Kilhmar

I have accounted for the game limitations that I have encountered. However I have already made a number of successful tweaks to my game, and I plan to do some further testing. I will see if I can find time to make a JSGME mod out of it.

WONDERFUL!!!

Originally Posted by Kilhmar

And as for when I started playing SH3 … when you were browsing the PC game section and found SH3 I was racking up tonnage in the Atlantic.

LOL! Didn't take long for your thinly veiled condescension to become overt.
Not only are your above comments irrelevant... but speculative.

Originally Posted by Kilhmar

I pre-ordered the European version (with Star Force and everything, curse them!). I’ve been using GWX 1.0-1.3 since you guys released it and I’ve been very pleased with what you have done for the game. I’ve only just recently decided to join the SH3 community since I was quite involved in WWII air war communities....

Be that as it may... no matter how much icing you slather on that cake... there's still needles in it... and we're not biting.

Originally Posted by Kilhmar

“The GWX team believes “realism” is in the mind of the beholder.”
So true.

Contextualization and cherry-picking at its best. Nice try. Though, I think that when we place it in its natural surroundings... clarity and logic return.

From the currently available GWX Manual: (Top of page 86)

Originally Posted by Das Buch

The GWX team believes “realism” is in the mind of the beholder. There are very few (if any) people playing

Silent Hunter III, with or without modifications, that have personal experience in submarine warfare as it was practiced during World War II, let alone personal experience in a U-boat in combat. Realism is therefore whatever one can glean from interpreting other sources and representing them to the player within the limitations of the Silent Hunter III game engine. “Reality” for a U-boat commander meant they paid for their mistakes with their lives; not wishing to enforce this extreme sanction on the gaming community, we have tried to provide a game that is enjoyable to play while also being realistic enough to give a taste of the life of a U-boat commander.

Now to clear away any obfuscation resulting from baiting and trolling:

With regards to your complaints about machine guns versus U-boats:

Hull integrity loss to "smaller caliber weapons" is not unique to GWX. Infact GWX mitigates it rather well IMHO... without turning the U-boat into a "Tiger Tank."

SH3 does not distinguish between the pressure hull, and vital components mounted/stored/attached to points outside the pressure hull.

As a result, some hull integrity is lost in any attack that damages vulnerable components, like the deck guns, flak guns, periscopes, snorkel components, GHG or KDB hydrophone pickups, air intake trunking for the diesels, spare torpedoes, ballast tanks, fuel oil saddle tanks, the UZO/scope heads, etc. Therefore, there is no way to protect the hull integrity of the U-boat from machine gun fire without also making these historically vulnerable items immune as well.

It's the result of a hard-coded design decision, and we've chosen not to mess with it given that fixing the vulnerability issue that has existed since stock Silent Hunter III would cause new invulnerability issues.

These are our justifications for not fiddling with vulnerability to MG fire in GWX in part, and explains why we did not worry about how much armor is penetrated by 0.50-caliber MG fire at various ranges, distances, and impact angles.

A .50 caliber round does not need to fully penetrate the pressure hull or component thereof, to cause a loss of structural integrity, or other serious problems relating to the optimal functionality of a U-boat.

A U-boat's function is not to remain on the surface in an effort to duke it out with aircraft or any surface unit that may cause harm to said U-boat. Whether or not you feel that any given element as modded in GWX is "unrealistic" or not is in actuality irrelevant. Arguably, GWX functions to illicit an appropriate response in the player causing him/her to think more like an actual U-boat commander... "I may win any individual engagement... but aircraft are extremely dangerous and I must dive."

It is after all, a U-boat simulator... not a flight sim.

Aircraft gunnery as presented in GWX causes the desireable effect of suppressing flak crews, to assist aircraft as they run in to drop bombs, aerial DC's (which were largely non-functional in stock SH3), fire rockets, and/or 57mm cannon shells that serve to cause the "REAL" damage to your boat in GWX. Whatever 'hull integrity damage' you suffer from strafing is quite negligeable in the face of follow-on attacks by other ordnance.

In testing, the aircraft damage models were generally designed to withstand only 1.5 attack runs against a a player U-boat mounting only 2x Flakzwillings sitting in a flat sea (an UNUSUALLY stable firing platform/condition) ... with just a smidge of additional durability for multi-engined aircraft... and any additional armor plate they might have carried. (Which was comparatively minimal indeed given the need for reduced weight in favor of range endurance of patrol aircraft.) Aircraft usually DID survive an attack run in the face of AA fire... probably owing to the fact that the U-boat is not a very stable firing platform... at least in comparison to an aircraft.

Momentarily disregarding 'historical facts' and discounting as to whether or not one source or another should be deemed valid OR 'definitive' as you appear to present with your postings... a game does not/cannot work much at all like real life. If we were to fully take into account real life matters, we'd need mainframe computers to run the simulation... to include such things as mettalurgical reactions to temperature, corrosive effects of seawater, etc etc etc.

Personally, I see the U-boat damage model as being quite forgiving as it is in GWX.

Given the limitations of a game system, you will find it a necessity to make small compromises in light of farther reaching effects. It would appear that you are not aware that the smallest caliber weapon in SH3, and subsequently GWX, is the 20mm. It is this same 20mm that is used universally in SH3/GWX for everything that may employ a 20mm weapon.

Additionally, what you fail to recognize is a massive and complete revision of the air coverage in SH3/GWX (for the sake of historical accuracy) and the composition of air attacks against player U-boats. Did you play stock SH3 for any length of time? If you have, then you can recall attacks from 12 Wellingtons at a time... 6 Catalinas...etc etc. Air coverage/attack composition certainly plays into the same equation as weapon damage values and damage modelling.

I think the most important thing that one can attempt to achieve, is to cause an historical behavior and and attempt to reproduce historically plausible/logical survival probabilities, disregarding what settings (historically accurate or not) you need to adjust to obtain those end-effects. Generally speaking, the GWX development team and testing crew share this view.

Furthermore, the Silent Hunter devs (to their credit) left us an adjustable skeleton that modders can manipulate. As 'simulator players' can, and often do become their own worst enemies by 'rivet counting'... if you feel you can do better, by all means do so.

We often help other modders and/or non-modders reach their aims. Though quite often we do so in private these days... as that is our way following the cumulative fatigue of 2 1/2 years of 'debating' different aspects of 'realism' as we have modded/researched/implimented it in GWX.

(If you feel our sources aren't viable... read the bibliography section of the GWX manual.)

At one time or another, virtually every aspect of GWX has come under fire as being 'unrealistic' for 'this reason' or 'that reason.' Still, individuals come to this particular thread with a sense of entitlement and a disrespectful attitude... to demand that we fix it for them or give them specific information on how to mod a given element when there is an entire forum here in which to deliberate such matters. Though we are often quite happy to assist players to fully enjoy their installation... it is not our responsibility to do so. Neither is it unreasonable for us to first explain our methodology when it comes to why we did one thing or another. Often understanding a thing, is better than further file modifications that will likely generate undesireable side-effects in unexpected places elsewhere in the game.

We've given the best of ourselves in an effort to model the entire U-boat war... not just The Battle of the Atlantic. Without a doubt, each and every GWX user will find one element or another that they aren't happy with... reasonably or unreasonably. We've addressed each important aspect logically and have struck a balance with platform limitations that we must accept.

Before continuing onwards to discuss such matters as the manufacturing disparities of various ammunition, I invite you to start your own thread... and to discontinue hijacking this one.

You have stated your opinions and carried out your arguments... and we have modelled matters in-game to meet our equally valid interpretation of available data resources... in light of game limitations that you have not accounted for.

[melnibonian]

Well Said Kpt

[Barbac]

Dear Kpt. Lehmann,

As a new comer in this forum, here is an occasion for me to sincerely congratulate you and the GWX Team for the amazing work you did with GWX2.0. Since I am in, this great game gets better day by day to play though it takes much time for me to improve myself in manual targeting .
Playing GWX is an absolute immersion that allows me to experience something very special with this game for the very first time I must say.
Furthermore guys, you and some top modders deserve all the glorious cheers from that community !!!


Barbac