SLMM/mobile mines

[goelfou]

After installing LWAMI Mod (from stock DW, with a Lwami_308_Full.exe installer), I have tried again the mine thing, and it did explode.

So, I can tell, from my own tests :
- Stock DW : hover at waypoint, does not explode at all
- LWAMI 3.08 : sink at waypoint, explodes

It is a bit annoying since I wished to do the campaign with no mods.
I'll use no mines then :/.

@Chock : Your problem seems bigger since you had this weird behavior also with LWAMI mod.
I can only recommend a clean uninstall/reinstall with fresh downloaded lwami 3.08 archive...

[Chock]

Yup, going to try a reinstall, it's got to be screwed up from the behaviour I'm getting (or rather not getting).

Chock

[Chock]

I'm guessing that when something gets this close to a mine, it really ought to go off, or you should get your money back from the arms dealer:rotfl:



Chock

[Molon Labe]

Hard to tell for sure, but it doesn't look like that mine settled.

[goelfou]

It's a paper boat ! Look at those nice folds !



Seriously, I could do the same with stock DW, resolved the issue with 3.08 install. Good luck

[SeaQueen]

I agree in large part. The fact of the matter is, that mines allow you to "hold at risk," any vessel in an area, which is a very specific sort of strategic goal. That being said, the effect of a mine field depends a lot on one knowing their actuation radius. If you know that, then you can plan things like how likely it is that the first ship gets hit, etc. That means you can use them tactically, if you are careful.

The thing is, due to their presistant and indescriminant nature, laying a minefield is not to be taken as lightly as shooting a torpedo (not that shooting torpedoes is taken lightly either). Laying minefields has a lot of implications from an international law perspective as well. I'm not a lawyer but I doubt you could, for example, lay a minefield in self defense, the same way you could shoot a torpedo or a ASCM. Mines also typically don't "turn on" right away. They're placed and sit for some time before becoming active. These days, they also usually have ship counters set to some random number, so even if they were turned on, they might not actuate on the first ship that goes by. That makes the short term effectiveness of a field uncertain. Laying a minefield has a lot of larger implications because it effectively denies safe use of a piece of ocean to anyone in it. In this sense, one would almost always lay mines in the context of a larger operational or even strategic plan that had been very carefully thought out.

Given all that, it really raises the question, wouldn't it just be wiser to shoot a torpedo or an ASCM?

From a realism standpoint, I'd argue it's probably more realistic to use mines less as an actual weapon you intend to employ against someone specific and more as a way to satisfy a mission goal. From a gaming standpoint too I think it's better because the mission goal might be something like, "lay a minefield with at least a 90% probability that the first ship to enter the field will be hit" and then you have to ask yourself, "how many mines do I need to carry to build that minefield?" Then you have to ask yourself, "how much space will I have left for other weapons and will that be enough to get me to where I need to be?" If the answer is, "no" then you have to be really conservative about shooting torpedoes. You'll always find yourself asking, "Do I have to shoot this guy? Would it be better to just run or hide?" That's what sub gaming is all about in my mind. Instead of thinking of subs as wonder weapons, think of what their limitations are, and then build a scenario to challenge those and your skills as a decision maker. If I was a sub captain, I wouldn't want mines on my boat. I'd rather have torpedoes or missiles. Mines are something the people upstairs would make me carry as part of one of their evil plots.

The situations in which you'll be able to get close enough to hit a specific ship in DW are practically nil,though. That isn't a problem with the mine, that's a problem of expectations. Mines are strategic weapons that do the most damage through psychological, not explosive, force. If you put enough of them in a high traffic area, maybe you get a hit, maybe you don't, but as long as your enemy believes the mines are there that area of sea is essentially shut down. There's really no way to model this in a tactical level sim.

[Molon Labe]

What's the timestamp on your SLMM.txt doctrine file?
It should be 2005/09/11 1:13

Here's how it should read:

; $Header: SLMM.txt Fri Dec 10 09:51:57 EST 2004 mike $
; $Revision: 3 $
; $Copyrt1: Copyright (c) 2003, Sonalysts, Inc. All rights reserved. $
;
; Fixed beta version by Amizaur, have to work with database modification,
; mobile mines capable of -5kts reverse speed !

var Enabled
var rundepth
var overthebottom
var ordspd
var ordalt
var rng
var brg
var DestReached
var Stop

IF Init THEN {
Enabled = false
DestReached = false
Stop = false
rundepth = -25
overthebottom = 25
ordalt = rundepth
ordspd = maxspd
DebugOut "SLMM Init"

} ELSEIF NewTrack THEN {
DebugOut "New track - detonating"
Detonate
} ELSEIF NOT STOP THEN {
rng = xyrng ( WayptX - OwnX ) ( WayptY - OwnY )
brg = xybrg ( WayptX - OwnX ) ( WayptY - OwnY )

IF ( rng < 500 ) THEN {
ordalt = ( TerrainAlt + overthebottom )
IF ( ordalt > -10 ) THEN {
ordalt = -10
} ENDIF

ordspd = ( rng / 10 - 2 )
IF ordspd > MaxSpd THEN {
ordspd = MaxSpd
} ENDIF
IF ordspd < -2 THEN {
ordspd = -2
} ENDIF
IF ( OwnSpd < 0.3 ) THEN {
OrdSpd = -0.5
IF ( OwnSpd < 0.01 ) THEN {
Stop = True
DebugOut "Engine Off"
OrdSpd = 0
} ENDIF
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

SetSpd ordspd
SetCrs brg
SetAlt ordalt

IF rng < 20 THEN {
DestReached = True
; DebugOut "DestReached"
IF NOT Enabled THEN {
DebugOut "Enabling!!"
Enable
Enabled = true
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

IF ( OwnAlt < -600 ) THEN {
DebugOut "Depth greater than 600ft, mine destroyed"
Shutdown
} ENDIF
} ENDIF

; setalt ordalt

[Reaper51]

I have a question about SLMM's. Sometimes when I use them, they run out to their designated points, and then dissappear. And sometimes, they don't, but after thirty or fourtyfive minutes they dissappear. Is this normal, or could it be something I'm not doing right? I've already checked my SLMM.txt against the above post, and they're the same.

Thank you for your time.

[Molon Labe]

If they are on an exteme slope, they might come into contact with the bottom and be removed by the sim engine. If they are disapearing after a time, my guess would be that a current has pushed them into the sea floor.

[Reaper51]

Ah ok, thank you. It was a shame too, I had layed a nice minefield for an SSBN.

[SeaQueen]

Not necessarily, there's such a thing as ship counters, which require multiple passes for a mine to go off. Additionally, mines don't have to become active immediately after placement. There might be some time delay, in fact, if I was the one placing them, I'd prefer them not to activate for a few days after I'd placed them in order to make sure I was well away from the location and insure their placement remains secret. That's why, if I had my druthers, mines in the game, wouldn't explode immediately after a ship passed over them. Rather, I'd prefer to have a trigger to trap their placement.

Originally Posted by Chock

I'm guessing that when something gets this close to a mine, it really ought to go off, or you should get your money back from the arms dealer