IE users: take note of this!

[Immacolata]

You are probably right about that JSTIGER. Hardware is locked hard by Apple. Perhaps that is why the OS really works well. Sometimes too much choice isn't a positive. However, having used bulky work gloves for years I noticed that much of the time I did mitten stuff anyway. I have an old HP lappy which is struggling with todays apps and fancy flash ridden home pages. I use that for most stuff because I can sit where I want to, and am not bound to my desktop.

I could get another Windoze lappy. But I have tried OS X. And it isn't as mitteny as you say it is. Can do all you really want. Even run windows apps now with such smart programs as Parallels for Mac or Crossover Mac. No need to reboot into bootcamp. So Im going to give it a try. I know several hardcore Windows users who switched to mac recently because they had the option to run windows on it too. None of them uses windows anymore lol. They don't see a reason to. OS X is really something worth considering in my opinion.

Only BUT is the games. I have a normal Athlon pc for that. With XP

[Perilscope]

My windows XP is rock solid, in over 4 years I am running it, I can count on two hands the number of crashes solely related to the operating system, simply outstanding.
Yet other people that I fix their PC with windows XP, they seem to have problems one after the other. Every third month or so I need to fix their problems, and their rigs is not to blame as I mounted their PC hardware myself, and at my taste, they are close to my own PC specs too.

Therefore, I think people that have many problems, are not good operators (administrators) to start with. I often see stupid software's that they don't even need, monitor this, monitor that, clean this, clean that, virus detection here virus detection there, oh geee! give the OS a break please.

Just to make a point, if one has over 27 processes when every windows are closed with windows XP, you probably have an unhealthy OS, point. Let it breath.

However, I really like Linux, I find it’s the best environment for a developer, and it is even more rock solid than windows XP, of course if one knows how to handle it, or in other words how to configure it properly. By the way, Linux nowadays is self-configurable as much as windows, but double the power and flex.

As for Mac, I wouldn't touch that with any length of pole. Moreover, I do not know why, and it is weird, but it seems that in my life, people that I often get into arguments for work are Mac owners. Is it by coincidence, or people that choose Mac's are of a type. :hmm:

[JSLTIGER]

I think that I should have probably qualified my remarks with the fact that my planned replacement for Odyssey is a MacBook Pro that I'm hoping to get before law school after I graduate in 2008. I'm hoping that there will be 64-bit quad core chips in the Apples by then. I have no major quarrel with OS X (with the exception of the lack of window maximization), and my complaints against Apple are disappearing quickly (once they hit a two-button mousepad, I'll be completely pacified) now that they can run anything.

[Immacolata]

You can maximize windows and they run 2 button mousepads. The trick is you put both fingers on the mouse pad and click = right click. Works nifty on the MacBook.

Originally Posted by Perilscope

As for Mac, I wouldn't touch that with any length of pole.

Perilscope, perhaps you get into arguments with people because you carry that sentiment. They probably think what a merom.

I have tried both, Windows XP and Mac OS X. And honestly I can't say that Windows XP as an OS has anything that I felt was lacking in Mac OS X. On the other hand, Mac OS X had bucket loads of style and a sense that it was designed with cohesion and usability at the forefront. Not by commitee as XP.

But the real difference is the hardware. Some people cannot live without building their own pcs. The Macs suck. Some people think that the choice of motherboard and chipset is very important. You cannot do that on a mac. Heck, upgrading your graphics card can be challenge I hear. If you love buying crap taiwanese copy cat hardware, the mac is a bad place to be. There won't be drivers. So in all aspects your choices are fewer on a mac. However with Parallels I can run windows xp emulation within Mac OSX and I do not expect many programs will be an issue. As it is a notebook, hardware isn't much of a problem either.

[Perilscope]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

Perilscope, perhaps you get into arguments with people because you carry that sentiment. They probably think what a merom.

Who said I get into arguments with Mac users about computer talk eh! You sure didn't comprehend my phrase. I said "arguments for work", nothing to do about their choice. I just notice in the background that they use Mac. I for one never talk to my clients about computer, as it is not my main job with them. And for two, it would be stupid of me to attack my clients based on computer choices, and lose them for that.

Originally Posted by Immacolata

But the real difference is the hardware. Some people cannot live without building their own pcs.

Exactly and end of discussion here.

Originally Posted by Immacolata

people think that the choice of motherboard and chipset is very important. You cannot do that on a mac.

Exactly and end of discussion here too.

Originally Posted by Immacolata

If you love buying crap Taiwanese copy cat hardware, the mac is a bad place to be.

By the way, it just proves how much you know about hardware when you state things like: "buying crap Taiwanese copy cat hardware".

For your information, Taiwanese based companies are the real deal in computer world. What did you think, because it’s a computer you would expect Japanese products? Japan barely touches PC products. Dam! Even Canada as bigger shares into PC than Japan, you know like, ATI, Matrox.

Just to give you an example, let's talk about desktop motherboards.
ASUS, GIGABYTE, ASROCK, MSI or DFI, they are all Taiwanese based companies, and you can't find many company around that produces MB's. Therefore, if there were companies that makes copycats products, it would still be a copycat of Taiwanese based company.
So tell me, if Taiwanese are the real deal, how can you state, "crap Taiwanese copycats". When in fact they are all made in Taiwan. Moreover, it goes for many pieces in your computer, including you future Mac.

They are as good as anything else, and your statement of saying "crap" is probably the result of two things:
For one, you must be inclined/prejudice to believe that the word "Taiwan" is automatically synonym of cheap.
And for two, you have been buying so far, low-priced stuff. Which happens to be made in Taiwan too.

[Immacolata]

Because all hardware comes from taiwan. Some of it is supposedly made in Canada or USA, but the semi conductor firms are in Taiwan, or possibly Shanghai. Good and bad. Ive build my own pcs for decades. Ive dealt with my fair share of crap taiwanese copy cat hardware with shoddy drivers amongst all the really splendid taiwanese hardware. Oh I can tell you tales of woe and despair of me and my relationship to via chipsets. Tell you this, I have shunned via like the plague ever since. They kept pushing out the same flawed PCI bus design in many revisions of chipsets. Oh brother.

Why just this year I bought a copy cat taiwanese bluetooth adapter because I thought "hey, it looks like it lives up to spec, so it will work." Oh man, you wouldn't believe the crap BT-stack they gave you. I had to hack the drivers installation files to get it to bypass the shoddy stack and use Windows built in.

These days I stick to whatever is build on SiS or ULi. My current AMD 64 X2 rig has an ASrock ULi based mobo. Cheap but good stuff. ASrock has been rock bottom prices but top dollar value for me, always. Not feature rich like the over-priced Asus big brother products, but stable and working as it says on the tin.

Now the MAIN difference is that on Mac, you are often forced to avoid the copy cat hardware and pick the expensive (but WORKING ones where they bothered with drivers). An example that lack of choice saves you from the million different configurations of headaches a PC user can experience. Simply because there are so many me-too products and who's to tell which is the genuine one amongst the crowd?

[sonar732]

I've been building my own computers for 5 years now and providing tech support for family and friends, along with my job, during the same timeframe. Over and over, the problem that I run into is the user. While working a help desk at a community college, a professor called complaining that his monitor wouldn't turn on. I asked him if it was plugged in or did he turn on the button..."Of course I did, I'm not an idiot!" So, I sent our roving tech to his office...lo and behold...he plugged it in and whala...it turned on.

Or how about my sister-in-law who would call me for support on a computer that I built for her. "This thing is a piece of crap, it runs too slow, and I can't play my games on it". What kind of games do you play? Pogo, online gambling (before online gambling became popular and more "reputable sites"). I even sent her links from tech support sites that stated there were a ton of ad-aware and malware associated with the sites she was going to. She still went to them and still called me. The last straw was when she claimed another guy she goes for tech support told her that it is the computer and not the sites...I told her to go to him for tech support for now on.

As for getting viruses and ad-aware/malware, I'm aware that there are some instances when it's not the users fault, but when push comes to shove, 90% of the time it is the user. Whether they open a malicious email from someone they don't recognize or click on an ad. I can still remember the "gator" days working tech support because our customers kept downloading gator, or the "purple monkey"..can't remember the name of the application.

[Immacolata]

Now there's the nice thing about macs. Supply one to all those clueless family members that call you for tech support and you will be happy. Because most crap sites they visit are catered to exploit clueless windows users :rotfl: There are probably as many clueless mac owners. The difference is that they do not get them selves into so much trouble.

[Perilscope]

Originally Posted by sonar732

...during the same timeframe. Over and over, the problem that I run into is the user.

Right on!

Originally Posted by sonar732

...She still went to them and still called me.

That is the problem with many of my hardware clients too, they just keep on going back to these stupid website or install FREE stuff from the net. They simply say YES I understood, I should not go there and there. What do you know next, they call you back a few months later for the same dam problems!

Me at the end, I advise them for them to have the best experience possible, I do my job right and with integrity, if they keep calling back for support, its only me the winner >>> $$$.

Originally Posted by sonar732

As for getting viruses and ad-aware/malware, I'm aware that there are some instances when it's not the users fault, but when push comes to shove, 90% of the time it is the user.

Right on again!

[JSLTIGER]

Originally Posted by Immacolata

Now there's the nice thing about macs. Supply one to all those clueless family members that call you for tech support and you will be happy. Because most crap sites they visit are catered to exploit clueless windows users :rotfl: There are probably as many clueless mac owners. The difference is that they do not get them selves into so much trouble.

With the increase in Mac sales, I don't think that this is going to be a truism for much longer. OS X is like swiss cheese, full of holes, it's just that no one takes the time to exploit them because the user base is so small. I think that Apple is foolish to put out the Mac v. PC ads that claim that the Mac is immune to viruses. That is not true by any stretch, and all it does is lull its user base into a false sense of security. Many of its programs have sizeable holes.

New Vulnerabilities Affect Apple AirPort Wireless Driver on Apple Workstations and Servers. Immediate Action Required. Friday, September 22, 2006

Apple Computer, Inc. has announced three critical new security vulnerabilities affecting Apple AirPort wireless drivers. These vulnerabilities affect both workstation and server versions of Mac OS X 10.3.9 and Mac OS X 10.4.7. Apple recommends that users immediately obtain and install the necessary security updates for their computers.
If the required updates are not installed, these vulnerabilities could allow an attacker who successfully exploits them on the wireless network to cause system crashes, elevate privileges, or execute arbitrary code.
CSSD recommends that all Mac OS X users install the required security updates provided by Apple in Security Update 2006-005 or AirPort Update 2006-001. These updates are available from Apple’s Web site (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304420) or by using the Software Update feature in Mac OS X. Macintosh users can schedule their computers to check for updates on a daily, weekly, or monthly basis by clicking the Apple menu, selecting System Preferences, and clicking Software Update. In the Software Update window, select the checkbox to “Download important updates in the background”. You will be notified when updates are ready to be installed. To check for updates immediately, click the Check Now button.

Originally Posted by Apple Computer Corp.

6) Check for Viruses
Macs don't get anywhere near the amount of viruses that Windows PCs are prone to, but that doesn't mean that they can't get infected. If you don't already have antivirus software, you may want to consider making a purchase. If you have the software installed, be sure to keep your virus definitions up to date—you can find the latest updates on your software manufacturer's website.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303602

The truth is that Apple recommends using an anti-virus program, because they know the Mac is not invulnerable, and is in fact far from it.

[kiwi_2005]

Go Firefox!

My son just brought a Alienware PC i am so jealous! 3.5ghz,2 gig of ram, 160hdd & 7800GTX 256 card PCI-E with Alienware case "black" alien design I was over his place today helping him put it together all up $1495 NZ - im getting one of these!

[Perilscope]

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

With the increase in Mac sales, I don't think that this is going to be a truism for much longer. OS X is like swiss cheese, full of holes, it's just that no one takes the time to exploit them because the user base is so small. I think that Apple is foolish to put out the Mac v. PC ads that claim that the Mac is immune to viruses. That is not true by any stretch, and all it does is lull its user base into a false sense of security. Many of its programs have sizeable holes.

Finally, someone else that shares the same thoughts, I was thinking that I was alone on these boards with such viewpoints.
It's just like some Linux newbie say that Linux does not have any problems with viruses, yes they do too.

Originally Posted by JSLTIGER

I think that Apple is foolish to put out the Mac v. PC ads that claim that the Mac is immune to viruses. That is not true by any stretch, and all it does is lull its user base into a false sense of security. Many of its programs have sizeable holes.

Foolish they are, and I think Apple is only lucky to have thought of the Ipod, or else they were doomed! Now because of the influx of money, they have their heads up and power to pursue development for their Macs and tons of ads. But just before the Ipod, very little bought Macs, only graphic people and a few that didn't know about the difference between PC and Mac, thinking that Mac was good or even better because it is prettier. I personally do not know any IT people with Macs. Buying a Mac is the equivalent of imprisonment, no liberty.

I think Mac is good in an office for the secretary, and only at the receiving desk, it's pretty

[XabbaRus]

You aren't the only one. I find the attitude of Mac users in their ivory tower and the belief they are invulnerable really annoying. The way they poo poo the Windows OS yet they moan that many developers don't produce the same games etc that are made for the PC. I wonder why. Also someone has made a Mac OS virus, just it isn't in the wild. Yet..

I agree that there is trouble brewing for Macs, it won't take long for someone to hack Macs and they'll be having trouble.

I don't think Windos XP is a "bad" OS. I have a decent firewall, only go to reputable sites like subsim and simhq plus a couple of news sites. Only dl software I know is legit and I have no problems.

This attitude that switching to Macs makes all your problems go away is naive.

[JSLTIGER]

Apple has always maintained that it is first and foremost a hardware company. While I find that many of its software programs are interesting, fun to use, and innovative (i.e. Front Row), they are not always (and are often far from) perfect. Case in point, iTunes 7 was released a little over a week ago, only to be revised to 7.0.1 yesterday because of mass complaints about bugginess. Thus, while its programs are not necessarily "bad," they are not invulnerable to imperfections and holes.

[Sailor Steve]

Twenty years ago I swore by my Atari ST520. Once I had everything hooked up right it never crashed, it played my favorite games (Silent Service, Oids, WizBall) and my favorite desktop publisher (PageStream) was created just for it. And MicroSoft programs at the time drove me crazy.

Now I have a 3-Gig Pentium processor, it runs my favorite games (SHIII, Flight Sim 2004) and the ever-improving PageStream 5. It runs on Windows XP and I too have had almost no problems. I tried Firefox, but it didn't like me or I'm to stupid, or both, but I've had great luck with IE and haven't been tempted to change again.