Berlin Opera pulled

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by CB..

it's no wonder they think we're weak.....we won't fight for the really important things the things we SAY are important to us...our culture... if we are as easily prepared to sacrifice our ART (note the capital letters) and our CULTURE then the battle is long since lost....
call me mad but i reckon we lost the battle over the cartoon debacle..
we should have stuck our heels in and point blank refused to bend on the issue...the muslims are behaving like spoilt brats lashing out at anything they think they can use against us....oh sure we have got the military power to stop them but have we got the cultural power to stop them....the one is useless without the other..and it's sad to say that they know this it's unlikely tho the muslims will ever get everything they want simply because we in the west will eventualy get bored (yes i did say bored) with them...just like us brits got bored of hearing about the I.R.A.
"ok blow up the damn supermarket you stupid b*st*rds... i'm sick to death of hearing about it"

course if the world economy collapses which there's a distinct possibility it might and or some global climate nightmare occurs then the whole ball game is up for grabs...but china will probably mop that one up if it comes to it..i dunno....i'd rather we were fighting for cartoons, plays. opera, etc etc than oil maybe if we were things would be working out different..

"where at first they burn books.......there eventualy they will burn people"

they have got us burning our own damn books for gawds sake..if we won't respect our own culture why should they???

Look, Islamic censorship is not at all desireable, but I have been reading about this planned performance for some time now. The scene in question was never part of the original libretto or score. The severed heads serve as a hinderance to artistic continuity of the piece, as the message of the king's cruelity has been beaten severely by this point. The addition, therefore, serves as meaningless excess.

Yes, directors do cite artistic liberty when doing this to opera. Everyone can recall the Patrice Chereau production of the Ring Cycle; perhaps the most famous example. Unfortunately, this tends to distort the original intent of the production, and what you get is an opera that is more by Chereau or Hans Neuenfels than by Richard Wagner, or W. A. Mozart. In this regard, I say good riddance to the Deutche Oper production.

[Skybird]

Let's keep the "Angst vor dem Islam", and the original content of the opera two separate things, Tak. And I already marked your argument anyway:

"As far as I do know, the opera itself is not the problem anyway. I don't know the opera myself, but it was said the scene when the heads of Jesus, Poseidon, Muhammad and Buddha are shown at the end (to illustrate the fight against the power of religious dogmas) is not part of the original Mozart opera, but has been added by the director as his interpretation and freedom of arts. Needless to say that I do not agree with that decision to pull it, it is ridiculous."

The real idiotic thing here is that a threat from Muslim side even has not been spoken out. The thing got cancelled just because it was considered to be possible that there may be protests. One even does not know who has launched the authorities to make a security assessment report, that is not automatic routine, but is only done by request. The requester is not identified so far. It could very well have been no Muslim, but an Anti-Muslim activist! This is the real scandal behind all this: that many people are willing to submit to Islamic demands - that even have not been stated, but are just imagined! Just the possebility that maybe, eventually, possibly, in the future Islam may worry about something that is being done already causes such people to give up in anticipated obedience.

Political pressure in Germany is mounting massively, I expect to see the opera being put back onto the seasonal plan soon anyway.

Maybe it all is a planned provocation by someone to reach exactly this result: a hardening of a public front not to allow Islamic demands to censor our public life. That is a third possebility for an explanation. Like I am cinvinced that the pope quote was no accident, but a precisely calculated "operation" to focus Western attention on a certain problem that we have with Islam's lacking control of it's tempers. Ratzinger simply is too intelligent and well-studied in Islam as that he could have made that "mistake" by accident and not knowing what would happen. The way the pope dealt with it afterwards, and made explanations that nevertheless carefully avoided any real apology, but referred time and again back to the importance of reason in religion, makes me think that it all was going "according to plan." Commentators said the speed by which the Vatican reacted illustrated the importance they saw in the need to adress Muslim protest. I say it was because the answers already was prepared. They probably already had started to wonder what took Muslims two long days before starting to boil hot.

But we agree on that opera. I do not like opera in general, but modern interpretations, as far as I am aware of them by snippets, I find even worse. But the orchestra of my father made a nice CD with Puccini overtures, these are making some fine music for red wine and cooking in the kitchen

[Yahoshua]

If your assunmptions are true skybird, thank g-d the Europeans have finally started to wage the culture war before it erupts into armed war.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Skybird

these are making some fine music for red wine

Haram!!!!!!!

[Bertgang]

As I heard, we won't see a real censorship on this work; it was just a temporary rethinking, now outdated, as effect of a police/intelligence warning.

Speaking about the director's version of Mozart's work, the "ART" seems safe; speaking about the good old Mozart, anyway, I fear an opposite outcome.

For the little I've seen, this german director is totally out of my taste; his way to artistic freedom is just a different manner to burn disliked flags.
I can blame him for this kind of attitude, as often I blame others for similar things.

[Skybird]

Only German language, but a good piece of comment by someone who simply feels bored by Islam - and the big show we currently make of it (again):


http://www.welt.de/data/2006/09/29/1054978.html

Ich will es einmal wie der fundamentalistische Hesse Roland Koch in brutalstmöglicher Offenheit sagen: Der Islam langweilt mich. Der interreligiöse und -kulturelle Dialog langweilt mich auch. Über was soll man denn sprechen? Die wichtigen Dinge – Freiheit, Gleichheit, Brüderlichkeit, Ess-, Trink- und Liebesgewohnheiten, die Ablehnung jeder Zensur von Bild, Wort und Schrift – sind für mich nicht verhandelbar. Mir ist es egal, ob ein strenggläubiger Muslim dafür Verständnis hat oder nicht, wie er mich beurteilt und ob er mich bekehren will. Umgekehrt bin ich nicht im Geringsten neugierig darauf, warum jemand seine Frau nicht in der Öffentlichkeit küsst, sich an strenge Speisevorschriften hält und wörtlich glaubt, was im Koran steht. Er mag es so halten, aber er muss sich, wenn er in unserem Land leben will, darüber klar sein, dass unsere Gesetze, Schulen, Zeitungen und Filme und Theater keine Rücksicht darauf nehmen, was ihn „verletzen“ oder „beleidigen“ könnte. Er wird Ärger bekommen, wenn er seine Frau schlägt oder seine Töchter gegen ihren Willen verheiraten will. Sehr wohl aber müssen auch gegen seinen Willen seine Töchter am Sport- und Sexualkundeunterricht teilnehmen. Schwer zu verstehen ist es nicht. Wer hierher kommt, muss wissen, worauf er sich einlässt. Ich weiß nicht, was man darüber für einen Dialog führen soll.

[STEED]

When is Europe going to stop bowing down to Islam? I am sick of taking there BS on the chin but when it comes to them you can not upset them in case they start to riot, Islam is using fear against Europe and are leaders are bowing down to it trying to keep the peace. Islam wants to take over the world and kill all of us who do not follow Islam, strange peaceful religion that lives by the sword.

More Political Correctness that is working for Islam.