Seawolf Real Life Question

[hyperion2206]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

SSGN such as an oscar are designed to carry anti ship missiles its thier primary role.

Soviet and russian doctorine is to overwhelm enamy radar but masses and masses of missiles, each oscar can carry 24 nuclear armed super sonic SS-N-19 anti ship missiles and each flys at mach 2+

The missile if fired from around 40 miles away you would have incredibly little time to react by the time you classify the contact 24 are headed your way and by the time you fired the missile to intercept they are within 5 miles of hitting you.

CIWS is totaly useless against them from the time it gets into range its about 0.0000468 seconds to impact, each missile is fully capible of mission killing a carrier or sinking a DDG out right, even such ships as aegis cruiser and destroyers would have a rough time trying to swat them all.

However aegis is now so advanced that i wouldnt doubt that they would stop all but a few and the oscar war time doctrine is to either hunt in groups of 2 or 3 aided by and escorting akula or victor so that could mean 72 missiles heading towards you not including tube launched ASM missiles.

now days though the standard patrol is done alone one oscar is fully capible of holding up a battle group for a day or two untill back up arrives, id say that with all them missiles flying around aegis may have a hard time im not saying it couldnt do the job its a very effective and powerful system but i would say it may have a rough time.

I understand that it seems to be working fine for the Russians, but what about the US?
The US just have normal subs who could fire Harpoons or TASMs (which are out of service). Nowadays there are no western ASMs that are suitable to be fired from a sub (in my oppinion). They don't have enough range and are too slow so they can be killed way to easy (assumed that the missile is detected early enough).

I think if western navies need a sub-launched missile it must be a long range super sonic missile which would need a whole new sub type to be launched from.

[Kapitan]

Not realy you could can launch them, and if your taking on say an udaloy or even a frigate of the russian navy air defence is a big thing for them, the kirov has three types of SAM missile systems not including the two types of CIWS.

The exocet is a good missile however lacks the range and by the time the sub is in position to fire there will already be torpedos in the water.

Harpoons and TASM are way too slow and the harpoons warhead's would just bounce off most warships anyway, the TASM would be a good mid range missile if it could go faster than mach 1.5 but the USN doesnt want to develope it.

To be honest the USN has realy shot themselves in the foot big time, if TASM and harpoons are defunct what on earth are thier ships going to defend themselves with if they ever got into a sea battle you cant rely on the 5inch guns cause they wont go further than 12 miles, and bare in mind most enamys who have ASM's will be firing from the 50nm mark.

[XabbaRus]

Because any opposing navy will find them selves with an SSN guning for them. Also most us navy ships AFAIK work in a CBG which should pic up the bad guys outside of missile range and thus allow an airstrike on them..

[Kapitan]

Plans can be easily shot down, and yes the USN uses the "protection in numbers" tactics as did the soviets, in a way it is a good tactic but in others its best to have that ASM there just in case.

[ASWnut101]

I actually agree. US weapons are VERY out of date. Even our carrier groups are vulnrable to an Oscar with the ss-n-19 and an effective remote passive sensors. All it needs to do is wait until the Nimitz is close, too far in range for any quick action by the Arlegh (i think thats how its spelled ) Burke, Ticonds, or OHP's. one shot to the Control tower will ground the jets, then the Nimitz is a floating mile long target(that means for tin can). US very desperatily needs a Mach 1.5+ sub-launch missile with atleast a 1000kg warhead.

[Smaragdadler]

Nice pic, showing the anechoic coating of a Type U212.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Smaragdadler

Nice pic, showing the anechoic coating of a Type U212.

Is it just me or does that sub just look TOTALLY sci-fi?

[Henson]

Harpoon is not defunct, sub-launched harpoons are. There is a difference.

I am unqualified to comment on surface action group tactics.

[XabbaRus]

Whilst also a fan of the Russian sub force I also think the effectiveness of the SS-N-19 is overstated. Sure on paper it looks good but how often are these things test fired in realistic exercises.

All we have is the official Russian blurb on them which of course is going to be complementary, just like any nations blurb of its own weapons systems.

It would be folly for the US to ignore the potential threat but at the same time Kapitan, until they are tested in combat or there is some independent verifiable records of such tests I think you are being a bit overenthusiastic.

It might just be better to sneak in and send some torps from up below instead of having to rely on offboard sensors to give you a position fix which will become old quickly esp if not updated regularly.

[Kapitan]

Its not uncommon to have them test most of thier missiles at least twice a year which is more than the americans acctualy do.

Kursk had tested one of her 24 SS-N-19 missiles before she was lost in spingex and wintex i would not be surprised if they are firing 3 or 4 of them in tests.

[hyperion2206]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

Is it just me or does that sub just look TOTALLY sci-fi?

I agree: the sail looks a bit odd but the rest looks normal to me. What makes you think that the 212 class looks sci-fi?

[ASWnut101]

its got a sci-fi engine. its a hydrogen powered battery, like the new experimental cars

[hyperion2206]

I know, but SeaQueen said that the sub LOOKED sci-fi. Since you can't see the hydrogen powered batteries...

[ASWnut101]

.....you can just imagine that they are there

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by hyperion2206

I know, but SeaQueen said that the sub LOOKED sci-fi. Since you can't see the hydrogen powered batteries...

The sail, the tail and the bow array are TOTALLY STYLIN' DUDE