What would you like....

[Kapitan]

lol hahahaha ivan and misha definatly lol hahahahaha

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

OK, I've been waiting for one of these threads to get some questions about the Russian personnel systems (that I got from reading the Kursk crew rosters) aside. You have access to Russian subs that most of us can only dream, but I'm still asking some pretty rare stuff, so feel free to answer only those you feel you can:

The Divisional Staff:
If possible a listing of the all the more important posts in a Russian naval diviziya leadership would be nice, but otherwise:

1) Who was senior in position, K2R Belogun, a "deputy chief/заме�титель начальника �лектромеханиче�кой �лужбы" or K2R Isayenko, an "assistant to chief/помощник начальника �лектромеханиче�кой группы". What are the differences in their duties, since in English they sound almost synonymous.

2) What is a "temporary acting torpedo flag officer/[/COLOR][COLOR=white]ВрИО флагман�кого �пециали�та БЧ-3"? Doesn't "acting" already mean temporary? What's missing in this usual translation?

Compartment 2/the CCP team
3) K2R Dudko was born in 1969, so he was about 31 or 32, a very young age for a full Commander's equivalent and XO of a 1st Ranked Vessel. According to Suvorov/Rezun, there are minimum periods of service in each rank before a person can be promoted in the Soviet ARmy. Is this practice shared in the Russian Navy? Is Dudko just particularly young, is his youth a sign of the officer shortage in the Russian Navy, or were K2R's always that young even in the Soviet Navy days?

4) Does "survivability division commander/командир дивизиона живуче�ти" mean "damage control officer"?

5) What does BCU-7/БЧ-7 ("combat control") do?

6) According to Truscott, the BCU-3 (torpedo) commander of Kursk should have been a K2R, which sounds reasonable. Are all other BCU commanders (from 1-7) supposed to be filled by Captain 2nd Ranks (we all know that lofty goal was not attained)?

Even counting in an officer shortage, how did 23-year old Senior Lieutenant Ivanov-Pavlov get to sit in that lofty position (no matter how good his grades were at school) on what seems to be his first crack out of the box? Is this kind of thing unique?

Compartment 3
7) What is a "помощник командира" (Repnikov)? He is not the XO or a deputy, but is still relatively senior. By "assistant", does it mean "secretary"?

8) What happened to BCU-6? I never saw it on any list?

9) How are officers of the watch selected on a Russian Navy sub, and how many would there be?

Thank you.

[Kapitan]

The squggley stuff shows as this on my PC

�лектромеханиче�кой �лужбы" or K2R Isayenko, an "assistant to chief/помощник начальника �лектромеханиче�кой группы".

i can only think it is cyrillic i cant read it lol i have no idea why its screwed up i can generaly read cyrillic on this pc however since my dad got on this pc its never been right since

compartment 2 question 3: no theres no time in grade so to speak nikolai zatayev (captain of K19) was 26 when he recieved his first command, gennady liachin was in his 30's when he recieved command.

compartment 2 question 6: the goal was captain 2nd rank yes however that was never achieved as most capt 2nds and 3rds opted for thier own commands so the void was filled with ltcaptains instead.

"Even counting in an officer shortage, how did 23-year old Senior Lieutenant Ivanov-Pavlov get to sit in that lofty position (no matter how good his grades were at school) on what seems to be his first crack out of the box? Is this kind of thing unique?"

Its not uncommon to work up quickly as i said before zateyev gained command at 26 so no this isnt unique nor is it diffrent from the royal navy we have had skippers who are around same age as zatayev.

officers of the watch are selected by thier skills qualifications and rank time served at sea also, the amount differs alot it depends what the submarine is doing where its going and mission, you will have more officers of the watch during a training exercise than you will if it was a ocean going deployment.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

The squggley stuff shows as this on my PC

�лектромеханиче�кой �лужбы" or K2R Isayenko, an "assistant to chief/помощник начальника �лектромеханиче�кой группы".

i can only think it is cyrillic i cant read it lol i have no idea why its screwed up i can generaly read cyrillic on this pc however since my dad got on this pc its never been right since

I used UTF-8 encoding when I typed the post. Try manually setting that on your browser. I guess maybe I should have chosen a Cyrillic-dedicated encoding, but there were like 10 of them to choose from. I understand something called KOI-8 is the most popular among the Cyrillic encodings, but I'm even more sure you have Unicode.

I decided to try including the original Cyrillic because I'm sure the translation is badly inadequate or I'd understand this stuff.

compartment 2 question 3: no theres no time in grade so to speak nikolai zatayev (captain of K19) was 26 when he recieved his first command, gennady liachin was in his 30's when he recieved command.

So it is a "when they think you are ready" thing. I see.

compartment 2 question 6: the goal was captain 2nd rank yes however that was never achieved as most capt 2nds and 3rds opted for thier own commands so the void was filled with ltcaptains instead.

Well, I guess that makes sense - the experience required to obtain the skill set to do this kind of job does not rise in proportion to the size of the ship.

Its not uncommon to work up quickly as i said before zateyev gained command at 26 so no this isnt unique nor is it diffrent from the royal navy we have had skippers who are around same age as zatayev.

Was that in WWII or postwar?

[Kapitan]

So it is a "when they think you are ready" thing. I see.

No its more who has the right attitude of command he who is knowlegable stands out and is willing to lead and is able to pass exams, the will not put just anyone in command of a submarine the russians are acctualy very fussy about who they choose, they even do family background checks.

Well, I guess that makes sense - the experience required to obtain the skill set to do this kind of job does not rise in proportion to the size of the ship.

Each ship is diffrent, you will find the men who opt for attack boats stay with attack boats ones who choose SSBN's will stay with SSBN's ive heard little of transfer each boat is diffrent you couldnt ask some guy on K157 to transfer onto TK20 because the station layout is totaly diffrent.

Was that in WWII or postwar?

post war ive heard of captains of 26 years old zatayev gained command at 26 he was 33 when K19 went to sea, there are many captains who are around the 30 mark in the russian navy and they are good skippers toothe average age for command in the RN is 28 - 30

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

No its more who has the right attitude of command he who is knowlegable stands out and is willing to lead and is able to pass exams, the will not put just anyone in command of a submarine the russians are acctualy very fussy about who they choose, they even do family background checks.

Don't take the statement the wrong way. Perhaps a more positive way of speaking I should have chosen was "meritocracy", and if they've really got a good evaluation system, I support it.

post war ive heard of captains of 26 years old zatayev gained command at 26 he was 33 when K19 went to sea, there are many captains who are around the 30 mark in the russian navy and they are good skippers toothe average age for command in the RN is 28 - 30

Wow, that's young. I guess I had been influenced by American Navy standards, where it seems to be 35 or so before your command, at least in the 80s onwards.

One more thing (man, how did I miss this), how does the enlisted personnel system really work?

I understand the Russian Navy uses conscripts, but how is a starshina made? Is it in the Soviet Army fashion (a short specialist training course lasting months and then you are a NCO until the end of your conscription period) or is it what they make you if you reenlist after your conscription trip?

And then how do you make the jump to warrant officer?

Can you just "apply" for it like applying to officer school (before your conscription), do you have to wait until at least the end of conscription before they even let you try, or do you have to wait until you had years of experience being starshina, perhaps even a tour as Glavynny Starshina.

[Kapitan]

I dont acctualy know fully how they progress via the paper work side, but i do know only the most dedicated willing and able get the position and your more likely to find the youngseters on the conventionals than the nukes, liachin was in his 40's when he was in command of kursk kurdin only gained command in his late 30's so you dont just get a command like that theres a complicated system on how its done, one that even i dont understand properly.

Conscripts will stay conscripts they wont progress, however they have the option to stay on and progress, the ones that volenteer for active duty get treated a bit better they can be trained up to NCO standard, most conscripts are not acctualy conscripts but volenteers, also warent officer equivilent only happens to those who stay in the service as enlisted for extended periods of time, and should they stay longer they could even become low ranking officers.

Applying to be officer one must have the right qualifications and back ground, must not have a criminal record and should you be of good standing then you will be accepted however your service goes from 2 years up to 5 it pays more but you do more time and its not a favorite option for many, but alot still do apply.

If your a conscript and wanting to become officer then you have to sign on for more than your quota which is 2 years and show the willing ability and have either got or willing to get the qualifications to become a low rank officer, that can take up to 8 years some times more, to go from enlisted to officer one must have the right attitude and qualifications but your more likely to be accepted if you volenteerd rather than orderd.

[LoBlo]

Hi Kapitan, here's a question:

What's the typical mission type for a Russian SSN, or SSGN while on routine deployment?

I mean, for American submarines the typical mission are either carrier escort with the sub being attached to a CVSG escorting the carrier from area to area, or the mission is a coastal reconnisance mission with the sub sitting off the coast of another nation with mast up eavedropping on electronic signals.

Can the same be said for the Russian subs? Coastal recon and SSBN escorting the mainstay of patrol duty? What about SSGN routine patrols? Those oscars are too big to be dragged into shallow water for spy missions, do they just sorta poke around in the deep with no primary mission tasking?

[Kapitan]

a mission for SSN would be fairly similar to the american deployment, SSGN's will shadow CVBG's SSN's will take out merchant vessels thats basicaly whats what but they do do fleet escort as well the SSK's do the costal work.

[LoBlo]

Then the followup question would be:

Who does the Russian Navy think is most spy worthy? It has a extremely limited amount of SSN available now and probably needs to delegate spy duty to only the most spy worthy coast. I'm thinking that it probably spends most of its spy missions on the Chinese coast, the European coastlines, and then if some free ships (even if unlikely) the US coastline spying on electronic signals.

Am I right?

[P_Funk]

What was Sean Connery's first posting within the Russian Navy?

[Kapitan]

I cant answer that lobol

[LoBlo]

Aw... I'm not asking for specifics. Just what the general attitude that any Russian civillan would have on who they think is most spy-worthy.

For example. If you were to ask me as a US citizen on who the US spies on I would say...

Its no secret that the US is keeping its eyes on China's navy. They're naval capabilities are growing constantly and their Taiwan intentions are under constant scrutiny. No doubt that they US has at least two sub sitting off the Chinese coast hovering with mast up to catch electronic signals with one sub in the Taiwan sea to keep an eye of the Chinese intentions there. (probably why the 3 SW subs were reassigned to the Pacific

No doubt that there are a couple of boats off the N. Korean coastline as well. Probably at least one on the west coast and one on the east coast to pickup all they can about N. Korea coast efforts.

And it would be surprising if the US didn't have at least one or two subs in the Persian Gulf watching Iran's military movements. Iran has 3 Kilos and the US is probably doing its best to locate and track the movements of all 3 at all times to keep an eye on where they are lurking.

Since the Russian navy is no longer the enemy it was, with less naval capability, then its uncertain if their coastal activities are of enough interest to dedicate a sub to coastal survileance. No doubt that when a new sub is launched that a SSN is assigned to try to gather acoustic data on the sub, but other than that... unsure.

So who would a Russian civillian say is spy-worthy? Does it still consider the US enough of a enemy to watch. Perhaps track the 4 new SSGN classes... or perhaps keeping an eye on their Chinese neighbor, even though an ally atm...?

[Kapitan]

Sorry cant answer that question, but use your brain there something in common with both, all im going to say.

[Kiwi Zero Six]

I would state you couldn't answer the question because you don't actually have access to the information required to answer it.

What are the three forward facing cylinders on the top of the hull of the Akula?