Should cannibis be considered legal.

[Skybird]

As long as alocohol, tobacco, refined white sugar are free and people are not educated in understanding what hyperglycamic carbohydrates are and what the difference between good and bad fats is, banning Cannabis is like chasing a house cat, while you leave the tiger under your bed untouched. It is simply idiotic. All these things, each for itself, cause far more costs in the health sector, more desease, more deaths and more shortening of life expectancy, than Cannabis. Banning it while accepting even greater dangers and consequences from other stuff is hypocrisy. The risk remains that Cannabis is an introduction for the user to harder drugs later on. That is the only valid argument, imo. As long as it does not come to something like the British opium war on china, yes, do not dramatize Cannabis.

Maybe they should tax it. If the state generates income from Cannabis, like he does from selling tobacco and alcohol (drugs that kill), he may find it more acceptable to allow it ?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Genesis
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

"For meat"?

The original word in both verses is "le'ochla", from the word "ochel", meaning "food" or "eating". So that the verse is saying these things are "for food" or "for eating."

The biblical word for "meat" or "flesh" is "bassar". This can first be seen in Genesis 2:23(turn the page ), when Adam commented on the creation of Eve:

And man said, "This time, it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh ("bassar mi'bsarri"). This one shall be called ishah (woman) because this one was taken from ish (man)."

This usage is consistant throughout the Torah.

Class dismissed!

[joea]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

"For meat"?

The original word in both verses is "le'ochla", from the word "ochel", meaning "food" or "eating". So that the verse is saying these things are "for food" or "for eating."

The biblical word for "meat" or "flesh" is "bassar". This can first be seen in Genesis 2:23(turn the page ), when Adam commented on the creation of Eve:

And man said, "This time, it is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh ("bassar mi'bsarri"). This one shall be called ishah (woman) because this one was taken from ish (man)."

This usage is consistant throughout the Torah.

Class dismissed!

I'm betting iceman used the KGV of the bible. I know some Greek scholars (Greek Orthodox) question its translation of the Greek of the New Testament. OTOH, meat in the english of the time was used as synonym for "food."

On topic, really see no reason not to legalise cannibis, I want my space cake. Joke, don't use the stuff, but as I use alcohol and caffeine both of which have negative effects see no reason not to allow it.

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by joea

I'm betting iceman used the KGV of the bible.

I took that as a given.

[kiwi_2005]

Cannibis & watercress boiled with meat and spices makes a great meal

[JJ]

Yes, why not.

I think the argument Skybird mentioned, that cannabis would be introduction to drugs later on, is valid only when one has to aqcuire it by illegal means. If you use homegrown or buy it from your local supermarket there's really no reason for you to suddenly get in touch with criminals/orginized crime and the channels they use to get drugs. What comes to the addictions.. it isn't any more addictive than alcohol. I have consumed rather large amounts of alcohol yet I've failed to have any urges whatsoever to proceed to "harder" poisons.. Thinners, aftershaves, windshield cleaners or whatever substances them bums do when they need a fix. Getting yourself addicted to some substance, be it pot, alcohol, tobacco, coffee, tea or oranges is a psychological thing. Other people have lower treshold to get hooked than others. And of course the way you use it plays a role too. If you smoke weed like you take beer.. maybe get completely wasted once, twice a month and grab a one or two during the week just to enjoy it and couple more on other weekends you don't get any more addicted than you do with the beers.

And on a related note.. didn't the problem with overcrowded prisons in US have much to do with the fact that most of the inmates are actually people caught possessing/smoking weed?

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The risk remains that Cannabis is an introduction for the user to harder drugs later on. That is the only valid argument, imo.

I pretty much agree with your post except for this part. One could make the same argument about tobacco and alcohol since a great majority of drug users also use one or both of them. If pot has a part in this i'd say it is more its illegality that puts people into a culture outside of the law where these things can be found.

[Skybird]

It is a psychological problem of the young. They are adventurous, they want to try out things. If the already have access to Cannabis, then they may be tempted to think that it is no big step forward to try any kind of hard drugs next. In fact this fear is what the police is supporting by it's experience, and statistics. If you drink a beer, you do not autimatically think: "cocain next, please!". It is a big step from beer to cocain. But if you use Cannabis, you may think that that step is far less a big step. The effects of tobacco, and alcohol do not compare to that of cocain, heroin, or LSD. Nowever, that selling these is wanted business by the state is pervers, I agree. But in the mane, the argument of cannabis as an entrance-drug is about psychology, not about biochemistry of the consumer.

[The Avon Lady]

I've got an idea that will make everyone happy.

Decafienated cannibis!

[August]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It is a psychological problem of the young. They are adventurous, they want to try out things. If the already have access to Cannabis, then they may be tempted to think that it is no big step forward to try any kind of hard drugs next. In fact this fear is what the police is supporting by it's experience, and statistics. If you drink a beer, you do not autimatically think: "cocain next, please!". It is a big step from beer to cocain. But if you use Cannabis, you may think that that step is far less a big step. The effects of tobacco, and alcohol do not compare to that of cocain, heroin, or LSD. Nowever, that selling these is wanted business by the state is pervers, I agree. But in the mane, the argument of cannabis as an entrance-drug is about psychology, not about biochemistry of the consumer.

That ties in with my illegality argument. Pot and heroin are both illegal. Both drugs the authorities tell people, will mess them up. Somebody tries a joint and doesn't die therefore they tend not to believe the warnings about the other.

[Skybird]

Yes. A good thing maybe would be an age barrier. In Germany, beer and cigarettes are free at age 16, which is a bad joke, imo. Advertising psychologists know all to well that if they have not been successful in turning a poerson into an addictive by the age of around 20 years, after that the probablity that they ever can turn him into an addicitove falls by over 80%. The teenagers of age 12-20 are the most vulnerable ones, they are easy to influence and therefore they are under heavy fire from the advertisement industry. I personally would like to see it like in many US states, no alcohol and cigarettes under the age of 21, driving licence with 17 or 18, but no driving alone without parents before the age of 21 or 22. But that is impossible in Germany.

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by Skybird

It is a psychological problem of the young. They are adventurous, they want to try out things. If the already have access to Cannabis, then they may be tempted to think that it is no big step forward to try any kind of hard drugs next. In fact this fear is what the police is supporting by it's experience, and statistics. If you drink a beer, you do not autimatically think: "cocain next, please!". It is a big step from beer to cocain. But if you use Cannabis, you may think that that step is far less a big step. The effects of tobacco, and alcohol do not compare to that of cocain, heroin, or LSD. Nowever, that selling these is wanted business by the state is pervers, I agree. But in the mane, the argument of cannabis as an entrance-drug is about psychology, not about biochemistry of the consumer.

Your quite right.
I dont smoke cannibis i eat it, I add it to my cooking, when i cook a stew i'll add abit to the pot, or baking a cake, banana cake with a bit of cannibis goes well. Never smoked it. Yet im not some big hippy drug induce junkie. I have never tried heroin cocaine or LSD, i dont walk around stoned out of my head im just me, can still have a conversation can still drive a car, still work, go out, meet ppl etc., nothings abnormal. My age group (42 years old here) we are all users, we all got families, we are not ex crims, or deal in the drug. I have stuck to cannibis all my life since my early 20's and never had the urge to try something harder. plus i dont use it everyday i can go without it for months and not crave for it, its more like a very old red wine something to have on a special occasion.
Yet today i hear about young ppl abusing drugs like its something they can try and forget. What they dont know is they are dealing with a double edge sword here. To many young ppl today try cannibis but then move onto the harder stuff. This is not the way to treat cannibis, (or more importantly themselves!) its a herb that needs to be respected not abused. Next thing you know these ppl have given up dope and moved onto this crap drug going around called P, i think Crack is the word for it in the USA. People from all professions smoke/eat which ever way suits them use this drug, (cannibis) lawyers,judges, cops, teachers, parents, social workers, some of the ppl i know that use it have professions where if found out would hit the front page of the local paper! I also see its now considered old fashion to use cannibis, (which in a way is a good thing) my sons dont use cannibis, they like there beer with there mates but are not users, its like only old ppl take that lol. So much fear has been about this that it has a bad label to it, everyone sits in the safety of there homes hoping they are not going to get busted. Its should be legalise to allow a user to have not more than 3 plants per household - if they have more than 3 then they are considered dealers and face the law. NZ is not too far away from making this a reality.... or maybe thats just wishful thinking :p

[The Avon Lady]

Kiwi, in all seriousness, you once mentioned that you have lapses of depression, is that correct?

Is there any known effect, whether good or bad, between depression and the use of cannabis?

[kiwi_2005]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Kiwi, in all seriousness, you once mentioned that you have lapses of depression, is that correct?

Is there any known effect, whether good or bad, between depression and the use of cannabis?

Yes i suffered depression for a couple of months im okay now, depression wasn't cause by cannibis i know this, if any drug would cause depression alcohol would be the closest. My depression was cause from a death of a family member - my mother. Although the doctors reckon it was triggered by a car accident i had 3 yrs or so back, an accident i did not cause i might add, was slammed into the rear by a driver while parked! Anyways i think they got that wrong my mum had died of cancer approx a yr before and it took me along time to get over it - we were very close not only that but i watched her died of stomach cancer. Which made it worse. I think it just took me along time to get over her death. Now ive accepted that shes gone and dont suffer from depression because of it.

[The Avon Lady]

The best of happiness in life to you, Kiwi.