Malfunctions/Sabotage in SH3Cmdr???

[HEMISENT]

Right now as it stands Ive completed all the Sabotage files. 3 basic periods are included 19440601, 19440801and 19450101 each has a gradually increasing percentage. Files have been sent to Jscones as individual sets plus a merged set using his date specific function. He can utilize them however he sees fit.
As for the Malfunctions component I already have a year by year set of files completed and I'm now finishing merging them for the date specific function.
What I'm looking for is one file called Randomized events.CFG that begins at the start of the war and runs thru the end with similiar files using different percentages kicking in/loading at specific dates.

The percentages differ year to year and boat type to boat type eg: the VIIB & IXB were older models and are set up with slightly worse odds than the newer C models

I've played with the percentages and right now for the initial version:
1939= 10-20% initial stages of war
1940-mid 1944=15-20%
Most of the files are set to be able to be repaired mid patrol-that means that should you be on a mission and notice a malfunction the player will have the option of continuing the mission as is and compensating for it or simply exit/re-launch thru Commander. I did this in the interest of those players who do not play at the upper edges of difficulty. The fact is if you take a boat out, test the engines and find out that it's only capable of max speed 9kts it's your decision to continue on or RTB. In any event the decision to continue is totally in the hands of the player.
Regarding percentages, we all agree that everyone has a different style of gameplay and expects different results from the same game. Once these malfunction files are out and being used; should a player decide that he's unhappy with the percentages(too much/too little) the player can easily go into SH3 Commander/CFG/Randomized events.CFG and locate the type boat he's concerned about and change the percentage to his own liking. Commander is infinitely adjustable in this regard.

As of right now all that's left is to finish merging the IXD2 and XXI boats.
Jscones needs to look at my merged file structure to make sure I didn't screw the formatting up since the date function is still new and in testing
Then it's up to him.

For addl info or thoughts see the Sabotage thread.

Cheers!

[Deep Six]

Just a thought, is there anyway of locking down the sabotage whilst still in dock thus inceasing you stay in port or even maybe the unlucky chance of your boat sustaining enough damage to actually have you to change your boat , throwing in a randomiser as to what you might end up with (You loose your beloved VIIc) for a VIIb?

Malfunctions should be a random occurance whilst on patrol as to what effect or % I'll leave that to you great modders

Just a thought

Deep Six

[Scorpius]

Well i spose if sabotage does end up making it in the final, i guess i could easily start patrol and check my boat before leaving port and re-dock if sabotage was found. Its not totally unrealistic but it would just annoy me too much to have sabotage.

I am all for malfunctions that are undetectable and non-crippling of a uboat. Like for example tube cap on tube 3 is malfunctioning whereby it cannot be opened or port electric engine has a faulty bearing or seal which causes the engine to not run efficiently effectively reducing maximum speed underwater by 1/4.

That is the kind of thing i would like - well not really like as its a malfunction! But you get the idea. Its like the dud fish. I hate it when it happens but i would rather have that in the game than not.

[Enfilade]

I'm for combined malfunctions/sabotage. I do have one question: if 2.6 is to be the final Commander and the sabotage/malfunction element is built in... what happens when the malfunction/sabotage mod is updated to a newer version? I would hate to lose the entire functionality of Commander if the newer version caused some conflict.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

I am all for malfunctions that are undetectable and non-crippling of a uboat. Like for example tube cap on tube 3 is malfunctioning whereby it cannot be opened or port electric engine has a faulty bearing or seal which causes the engine to not run efficiently effectively reducing maximum speed underwater by 1/4.

That is the kind of thing i would like - well not really like as its a malfunction! But you get the idea. Its like the dud fish. I hate it when it happens but i would rather have that in the game than not.

That's what I think the beauty is. Nothing is destroyed, just made less effective. For example max speed may be slightly decreased to reflect engine damage. Periscope raise time may be slower to reflect bearing/whatever wear and so on.

What this does is:
a) make the need to do a test crash dive just out of port a necessity rather than a useless process step (for those that take their game seriously)
b) adds an extra element of thinking..."Gee, it takes two seconds longer to dive and I'm in 1944...should I continue my patrol, or should I go home?". You then become responsible for your decision - which really hits home if five minutes later you're hit/sunk by a roming Catalina whilst trying to dive. Extra choices and decisions...more uncertainty...BRILLIANT!

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by Enfilade

what happens when the malfunction/sabotage mod is updated to a newer version? I would hate to lose the entire functionality of Commander if the newer version caused some conflict.

The Sabotage/Malfunction mod is nothing more than a long text file which can be copy/pasted right into the Randomized events.CFG in Commander.
Any updates or revisions can be swapped very easily. The mod is being put together specifically for Commander 2.6. Thermal Layers is already working properly in Commander and Sabotage/Malfunctions is written the same way only utilizing the new date function.

[Scorpius]

Meh! We shall see how this pans out.

[JScones]

Originally Posted by Enfilade

I'm for combined malfunctions/sabotage. I do have one question: if 2.6 is to be the final Commander and the sabotage/malfunction element is built in... what happens when the malfunction/sabotage mod is updated to a newer version? I would hate to lose the entire functionality of Commander if the newer version caused some conflict.

That's why I've spent so much time on the randomised events and static settings features. In my mind they have now become the heart of SH3Cmdr.

It's these two features in particular that ensures that SH3Cmdr never gets "outdated" for SH3. If in one month someone comes up with a great new malfunction idea, it just gets added to the randomised events framework. When gouldjg has finished his CHAOS mod, it can be plugged in too.

And that's the main reason why I don't have any future release plans. I've now made basically all SH3Cmdr settings adjustable via cfg files, so it can continue to be "tweaked" just like SH3 can.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by JScones

Good point about sabotage events not randomising mid-patrol. Hemisent, something to consider, if haven't already?

Jaesen
That's what I originally intended but the issue came up regarding being "stuck" with the problem with no ability to repair. Personally I like the idea but in the interests of those who would have a problem with it I changed it to "repairable"(exit/re-launch) mid patrol. It's a simple thing to change-so let's have some feedback on this if possible.
Here's a thought-I suppose I could just duplicate each file and re name them 0_data (mid patrol), 1_data(no mid patrol), etc. Then increase the Number in the choose from= line to control the odds.
This way the player would get the same percentage but with 50/50 chance of being "repairable"
What do you think?

[Skubber]

I would really like the chance to repair some of the breakdowns/ sabotage damages. That seems the most realistic to me.

I agree with the earlier poster that the occurence of actual sabotage was probably quite low. (Where as the fear of it was probably considerably higher.)

I voted for malfunctions but not sabotage. I'm with U-Schulz: I don't know how much sabotage actually went on, but it seems to me that sabotage would cause problems that might prevent you leaving port in the first place.

I've already been told that it's not possible to to have total breakdowns that can be repaired, but I have to dream.

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

I voted for malfunctions but not sabotage. I'm with U-Schulz: I don't know how much sabotage actually went on, but it seems to me that sabotage would cause problems that might prevent you leaving port in the first place.

I've already been told that it's not possible to to have total breakdowns that can be repaired, but I have to dream.

Hi Steve
If you can, pick up a couple books about the U 505. If I recall correctly this boat was considered a bad luck boat as it left port, started it's patrol and had to return so many times that the crew was accused of cowardice.
I've always been interested the this boat because I live right outside Chicago and have visited it repeatedly as I grew up. Anyway,This is what got me thinking about the concept originally.

As for the real life percentages-I don't know. I tried to pick something that seemed to work for me. Too few (2-5% and you never see any reason to install it, Too much 50% and it gets old real fast-but keep in mind that after 1945 everything was going to hell for the Germans real fast. I attempted to simulate that behavior. With the way Commander is structured you can pick whatever you desire. Same as the actual settings themselves-infinitely adjustable and you don't need the Mini-Tweaker to do it either.

Good points. It's just that I looked at the original version, and I thought it was too much as well as not covering the early periods.

Maybe the combined version is the right way to go. On the other hand, unless you found gum in the fuel lines how would you know. It's like Thomsen in the longest version of Das Boot talking about his torpedo failures: "Sabotage. You can be sure of it!".

Honestly, I don't know the answers.

[irish1958]

If I were to risk life and limb to sabotage something, I would pick something that really made a difference, and wouldn't be readily fixed, especially at sea. That would mean a severe engine failure, on inability to close an outside hatch, or something that would make the boat sink or not be able to continue it's patrol. So I don't think the sabotage should be repairable at sea and ideally should make the boat more vunerable to enemy attack.
As for malfunctions, probably most of them should be fixable, but not all, and they mostly should just reduce your effectiveness or increase your vunerability. As Jaeson points out, this forces you to make a choice as to continue or turn back. More choices!!!
As the files are easily disabled, I would vote to have the complete package, and then disable what I don't want.
Since the files are tweakable in the SH3CMDR, instructions should be written so a monkey can do it. I would test this function on a few computer illiterate persons to see if they can be followed. I'll volenteer for this; or better yet have my wife do it.
Future mods (i.e. Chaos) should be packaged to install easily and not screw up the programs installed (thermal layers, malfunctions, sabotage, player added random events, etc.) Along this line, would it be possible to have several seperate random folders so that when you have randomized an event and are satisfied with it, new additions would be added to a different random folder.
How about a JSGME for SH3CMDR?
irish1958

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by irish1958

If I were to risk life and limb to sabotage something, I would pick something that really made a difference, and wouldn't be readily fixed, especially at sea. That would mean a severe engine failure, on inability to close an outside hatch, or something that would make the boat sink or not be able to continue it's patrol. So I don't think the sabotage should be repairable at sea and ideally should make the boat more vunerable to enemy attack.

Most of the items affected are pretty substantial in varying degrees so yes they pretty much make the boat extra vulnerable to the enemy. As far as not being repairable-you would be surprised what a good chief engineer can come up with. Never say never. However, I will contact Jaesen jones about the idea of splitting the Sab files as I outlined above-after thinking about it a bit it makes good sense.

Originally Posted by irish1958

Future mods (i.e. Chaos) should be packaged to install easily and not screw up the programs installed (thermal layers, malfunctions, sabotage, player added random events, etc.)

The way Randomized events.CFG is set up it's simply a copy/paste affair.
Once Gouldjg wraps up Chaos and releases it the player simply pastes it into the existing Randomized events.CFG. It will not affect the existing structure unless the new mod uses one of the same files as an existing one. And there is a simple method for dealing with that situation also.

Originally Posted by irish1958

Along this line, would it be possible to have several seperate random folders so that when you have randomized an event and are satisfied with it, new additions would be added to a different random folder.
How about a JSGME for SH3CMDR?
irish1958

Yes, multiple Randomized events.CFG are possible-right now I've got 5 in the test version. As far as JSGME for Commander goes-I'm the wrong one to ask, you need to contact Jscones