When is Europe going to say..."ENOUGH!"

[Sixpack]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

You must've missed this one from several days ago:

Dutch Think Tank: Netherlands Must Learn to Love Shari'a.

End of that article:
If this truly represents the current state of Holland’s leftist thought, and if they really do have the ear of the Dutch government, it won’t be long before those red light districts and “coffee shops� are shut down. Or bombed. Whichever comes first.


That'd be awesome !

[AG124]

I can only hope that people here in Canada will learn from whatever eventually happens in Europe. I fear though, that the freedoms we currently enjoy here will eventually be destroyed by extremists. The level of violence from Muslim gangs in Toronto is skyrocketing, and on CBC it seems as if even when an appeal is made to the public to look out for suspects, they are reluctant to admit that the suspect is Muslim (presumably to avoid offending someone). If important details like that are withheld for the sake of PC, then what is the point in even asking for the public to watch for them?

I think I read that Sharia law was actually allowed in southern Ontario for awhile, although it has been banned now.

[Sixpack]

Originally Posted by Abraham

This report, specificly targetted on the Dutch situation, came under immediate criticism not just from Ayaan Hirshi Ali, but from major political parties.
Our Foreign Minister Ben Bot (=Ben Blunt!) stated that the Dutch position towards the Islam and its problems needed no adjustment and that talks with Hezbollah and/or Hamas would only be possible if they were prepared to recognise Israel, existing treaties and would denounce violence.

Although I'm (also) critical about the report, it has to be seen in a Dutch perspective.
A recent study amoungst so-called 'Muslim' youth in Amsterdam found that 90% dit not visit a mosque and was not interested in studying the Quran. They consider their Muslim affiliation to be a social and cultural thing.
Especially young 'Muslim' girls are doing well at school and in jobs.
Muslim young men without a proper level of education and without jobs are prone to asocial and criminal behaviour, but it is seldom religion-related.
Devote Muslims - especially girls - do well in society and see their religion as a personal thing.
A neglectable minority of these fundamentalists can be considered extremists.
The study found that most young 'Muslims' want to have a job, make money, buy a car or start a business. The study predicts that out of these yongsters a middle class of young 'Muslims' is devellopping.

If this study is correct it shows that 'Muslims' are not one homogene group but that there are several deep divides amoungst then. I can imagine that 'Muslims' for whom Islam is not much more than a cultural thing and a social background are as sick of being confronted with "Muslim extremism" and with "Muslim violence" as with the generalisations these terms imply towards themselves.

I remember that at a national demonstration in Amsterdam against the famous cartoons, last februari - about 300 - 500 Muslim youth showed up, most of which started rioting and vandalising shops. The majority of young Muslims, while not condoning the cartoons, didn't care enough to show up. Some Muslim organisations even advised Muslims not to go because they feared that Muslim troublemakers would give the whole Muslim community a bad name.

Good reasonable post. More and more I am willing to see Holland lately is doing the honorable and right thing. Tougher immigration law and application in the last 3 years overall with good results, a new policy of demotivating newcomers in distant lands from coming over, and at the same time trying to work out a base for lasting peace between the various groups in Holland. I think we are steadily becoming the role model for this fu-ed divided world.

But in light of the ongoing secularisation of muslim-born children over here (as Abraham explained) I add in all fairness imo the building of huge Mosqs here was a very bad call. Because of their presence the muslim kids are constantly reminded of their roots, even if they dont feel the need or desire to ! Now that is the kind of extreme PC-ness which I resent here. And at the same time it is a fact that it makes the native Dutch(wo)men move out to other parts of town. So much for co-existence ! Enter 'apartheid'. Stupid politicians will never learn

[Torpedo Fodder]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Controlling language, is a way to control thought. Or.. so ive been told.

It is: Read Orwell's 1984, that was the whole point of having "Newspeak" as the official language of Oceana. Newspeak was basically a variety of English that had it's expressiveness neutered (for example, synonyms were eliminated, as were supurlative descriptive words), intended to render those whoe knew it as their only language incapable of unorthidox thought. Of course it is difficult to control thought through language in people who are multi-lingual (as is the case in Western Europe today, where the majority are fluent in at least two languages), which is why Newspeak was intended to replace not only conventional English (Oldspeak) in Oceana but every other language as well.

Orwell's concept of using language to control thought is based on the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, which theorized that all thought and perception is constrained by language. And although thought and perception is not as completely constrained by language as Sapir and Whorf had proposed, the opposite contention (that thought and perception is completely uninfluenced by language) is equally false.

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Torpedo Fodder

It is: Read Orwell's 1984, that was the whole point of having "Newspeak" as the official language of Oceana...

I kinda slaped together an exmaple of this in my post above incase anyone didn't know what that was...

[DAB]

Going back to the original debate...

You know, I lost several friends to Catholic Terrorists in the 1990's.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Abraham

This report, specificly targetted on the Dutch situation, came under immediate criticism not just from Ayaan Hirshi Ali, but from major political parties.
Our Foreign Minister Ben Bot (=Ben Blunt!) stated that the Dutch position towards the Islam and its problems needed no adjustment and that talks with Hezbollah and/or Hamas would only be possible if they were prepared to recognise Israel, existing treaties and would denounce violence.

Although I'm (also) critical about the report, it has to be seen in a Dutch perspective.
A recent study amoungst so-called 'Muslim' youth in Amsterdam found that 90% dit not visit a mosque and was not interested in studying the Quran. They consider their Muslim affiliation to be a social and cultural thing.
Especially young 'Muslim' girls are doing well at school and in jobs.
Muslim young men without a proper level of education and without jobs are prone to asocial and criminal behaviour, but it is seldom religion-related.
Devote Muslims - especially girls - do well in society and see their religion as a personal thing.
A neglectable minority of these fundamentalists can be considered extremists.
The study found that most young 'Muslims' want to have a job, make money, buy a car or start a business. The study predicts that out of these yongsters a middle class of young 'Muslims' is devellopping.

If this study is correct it shows that 'Muslims' are not one homogene group but that there are several deep divides amoungst then. I can imagine that 'Muslims' for whom Islam is not much more than a cultural thing and a social background are as sick of being confronted with "Muslim extremism" and with "Muslim violence" as with the generalisations these terms imply towards themselves.

I remember that at a national demonstration in Amsterdam against the famous cartoons, last februari - about 300 - 500 Muslim youth showed up, most of which started rioting and vandalising shops. The majority of young Muslims, while not condoning the cartoons, didn't care enough to show up. Some Muslim organisations even advised Muslims not to go because they feared that Muslim troublemakers would give the whole Muslim community a bad name.

I think you mean negligible there, in that case don't. Small, yes, not negligible.

[Godalmighty83]

quite a bit of over-reaction on here, this just a group of civel 'servants' making a kind of reccomendation, like they have been every other mont hfor the past 20 years.

5 years ago they tried to ban the phrase 'suicide bomber' and everyone ignored them just as they always do.

personnaly i would be more worried that the us is getting took over by nutty evangelicals

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Godalmighty83

quite a bit of over-reaction on here, this just a group of civel 'servants' making a kind of reccomendation, like they have been every other mont hfor the past 20 years.

5 years ago they tried to ban the phrase 'suicide bomber' and everyone ignored them just as they always do.

personnaly i would be more worried that the us is getting took over by nutty evangelicals

Perhaps the Kapitan should start a pol, how big are changes they do..? :hmm:

[STEED]

I don’t give a toss what a terrorist calls him or herself, their belief background and all the rest of it. At the end of the day their aim is terror through death and destruction and that is a twisted belief. Who ever they represent a person or a group they are a dangerous element in the world we live on.

[Abraham]

Originally Posted by Fish

I think you mean negligible there, in that case don't. Small, yes, not negligible.

@ Fish:
I'm only reporting what I've heard on Business News Radio. I even don't know if this Amsterdam study (University of Amsterdam made it) is representative for the rest of Holland as well. But it kind of makes sense to me.
The extremist minority may be very small - which is good - but that does not mean that this tiny group can't cause tremendous problems. The three London bombings were not related initiatives of small groups...
I realise that if only 1 % of Dutch Muslims are extremists (which seems to me very optimistic) we are still talking about 9.000 to 10.000 people. Go figure. I don't underestimate at all the danger they can cause...

I'm just saying that at this moment there is a harsh and repressive policy against would-be terrorists in Holland and the influx of mainly Muslim immigrants, especially pre-arranged (ímport) brides from Morocco and Turkey who are litterally sent here without knowing the language let alone the culture, just to make babies and obey their husbands is strongly reduced and integration of 'Muslims' is seriously promoted...

I realise more and more that true fundamentalists must hate the West for its values and its democracy, its freedom of religion, of sex, of expression. Freedom is too much of a temptation - even for young 'Muslims', so they - theologically speaking - exchange their religion for a kind of 'Muslim' secularism that fits in our society. This makes our democratic system a fundamental threat to orthodox Islam, which is in my view a blessing; Muslims will have to integrate into XXIst century Holland if they want to live here, because we won't go back to the VIIIth century desert...
Because we are living in this little country with 15 million Dutchmen and about 1 million Muslim immigrants (of three generations) and we'll have to get along, one way or another, won't we. We can hardly expell 1.000.000 people or go back to Third Reich practices...

As far as the report of the WRR think tank is concerned, I would quote Cpt. Ramius: "Let them sing...!"

There are always people who are happy when they hear a certain melody...

[thyro]

Originally Posted by Sea Demon

This is just incredible.......

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/wterr12.xml

At least America is fighting back against this type of Politically Correct B.S.

I hope you Europeans don't keep allowing the crazy socialists over there to control the language.

I'm sorry, I'm not Muslin but I found your post offensive due to your unilateral view, which well portraid current US view of the World.

I've been avoiding comment on this post for serveral days. But what a hell its again on the top of the list... so lets go down to business...

-----------------

Attending that America is a country of Emigrants which think that remain isolated from the rest of the World and impose their belly button (idiocracy) use worst therms such as "war against terrorism", etc.

When is US wake up? And somone in that country (with more than 2 brains cells and balls) to say its - Enough!!! lets stop this crapy and idiotic external policy!!!

My only guess is... it will take sometime... and more lives until someone realises that has no right to say - someone else is wrong!

In my view, US of America is not fighting back any politically correctness.

US is simply doing their usual dirty job to justify them as unique super-power of heros in a decade that lost only formal competitor... URSS.

So, its now finding a way to justify their internal investment in armament, test an research of it...

And nothing better than make a few wars to test it and make some heros to cheer them on their return home (if some of them return!).

I hope that those US neo-right-wings get some sense, after all, all of them were emigrants and the 1st ones were from UK followed by many others from many other countries.

On the day that you understand and live in peace with your own people, that would be the step to start living and understand the people that live in other countries (such Europe).

However, like every other country muslin community live in US, the differences is in less numbers to justify their vote for US presidency.

Because if their vote was important, for certain that I would not see this post here. Teasing Europeans for words that are too deep for a common american brain to understand.

But this shows some "belly button" mentality that some people in US still have...

I would say ... Get out from your cave and visit the World... but above all try to understand and learn the others and their reasons for.

A coin always have 2 faces and either one is right and wrong... the difficulty is to find the middle term to balance the coin.

[Sea Demon]

Originally Posted by thyro

Teasing Europeans for words that are too deep for a common american brain to understand.

But this shows some "belly button" mentality that some people in US still have...

I would say ... Get out from your cave and visit the World... but above all try to understand and learn the others and their reasons for.

I really have no interest in replying to you in any meaningful way. You're the type that assumes another person is stupid if they don't hold the same opinions that you do. How tolerant and open minded of you. Not!!! The truth is, you're a lost soul, bud. And there's not a darn thing I can do for you other than say you're entitled to your own views.

"Common American Brain", huh? Just what are you trying to imply with that comment. For being such a common and dumb nation, the USA seems to do pretty good, wouldn't you say? But of course with your superior intellect, and ability to think more deeply than the average American, I'm sure you can at least see that. (Sarcasm Off) Go sell your rotten fruit to somebody else, pal.

[Fish]

Abraham,
I realize now your just quoting.
For the rest I cant find myself in the article, and in your reaction.

[Tchocky]

Originally Posted by STEED

The core of the problem in Europe is the E.U. Parliament it has been planning and implementing rules and regulations for years. They are the real threat they are slowly taking control, I suggest people of Europe wake up and read all about it. The very select few are controlling are lives we are loosing are rights and freedom. Political Correctness is only a small part of what is unfolding; it is going to get worst.

Stop voting for it, and it will stop happening.

Pooling resources and expertise is no bad thing. There is no coalescent modern precedent for the EU, give it a bit more time.

*jingles some €'s*

Yeah, give it time