Poland Will Not Permit Iran To Research Holocaust

[Letum]

Why is holocaust denial such an emotive issue?
Obviously it was a tradgedy of emmense magnitude.
However people will take what ever view they like (even if their views are quite obviously wrong). We can not create a world where everyone shares the same logical views abnout anything, it just isnt possible, there are allways people who will disagree.
It makes them look foolish and lays their motives bare, but is it something we should be angry about?

Please dont get angry of flame me, I am not stateing my point of view and I am not trying to invalidate other peoples point of view by questioning them

[TteFAboB]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

How about inviting a group of [Iranian] students(...)

I said that.

I still find it unacceptable to welcome with open arms an official Iranian expedition, considering their reason is not to figure out the truth, mine, theirs, any truth.

Because they don't allow Islam to be put to question, because they don't allow Khomeini to be put to question, who are they to question the European academy? I'm not immune to questioning, they are.

There can be no reason with someone who believes Israel should be erased from the map, there is no openness with a Sharia-Dhimmi believer. The Polish were oppressed enough, don't expect them to welcome an oppressor with open arms.

Unlike you, I share no sympathy for Ahmadinejad and Mr. Bomb Turban above him. They've earned the opporunity to improve the life of many Iranians but they prefer to throw that opportunity away and do the contrary.

Iran wants to research the Holocaust? Send free Iranians, with access to education and the free flow of ideas to study it. Not the denial Zealots.

[sik1977]

Originally Posted by TteFAboB

I said that.

I still find it unacceptable to welcome with open arms an official Iranian expedition, considering their reason is not to figure out the truth, mine, theirs, any truth.

Because they don't allow Islam to be put to question, because they don't allow Khomeini to be put to question, who are they to question the European academy? I'm not immune to questioning, they are.

There can be no reason with someone who believes Israel should be erased from the map, there is no openness with a Sharia-Dhimmi believer. The Polish were oppressed enough, don't expect them to welcome an oppressor with open arms.

Unlike you, I share no sympathy for Ahmadinejad and Mr. Bomb Turban above him. They've earned the opporunity to improve the life of many Iranians but they prefer to throw that opportunity away and do the contrary.

Iran wants to research the Holocaust? Send free Iranians, with access to education and the free flow of ideas to study it. Not the denial Zealots.

In a free society why should a select few, of whatever description, liberal or mad/extreme, should be allowed to question anything. Why should just the Iranian students fitting a certain profile be allowed to research holocaust. A truth backed by undeniable proof is the same towards all who look into it. So what are you so concerned about or trying to protect.

Yes its true that in our closed societies you cannot question many things, but why do you wish to replicate that in your open society with free speech and' all. Who can stop you from questioning Islam in your open society, and you shall question it to your heart's content. Are you saying your open society suffers from the same dual-standards our closed societies suffer from??!! censorship for the disliked or the dis-illusioned!! Why do u feel you need to compete with a closed society?? evil-for-evil??

An open society shall be open to all. If it allows cartoons of Muhammed, it cannot stop cartoons of Jesus. So if you wish to allow holocaust to be researched/questioned, then anyone should be allowed to question it. Your answer will be the same to both if it is the undeniable truth. You cannot put conditions that only those will be allowed to question/research who will believe/accept our answer.

[TteFAboB]

Actually, the select few are the vast majority. This majority is alseep right now, dazed, hypnotized. Good, nice, decent people who are not Jihadists, Islamists, fascists, etc.. People who would be very well glad to reproduce the Holocaust are not welcome.

The point is that it is pointless to accept a commission so blatantly against the reality of the Holocaust, not because of what they have to find or say in Europe. It's what they'll bring back to Iran that matters, a few cartoons with 3 extra ones allowed masses to be manouvered and cause havoc all over, should Iranians be allowed to go back to their home with a false theory proving the Holocaust never existed if it can't be contested, by Europeans or locals, and might be used to fuel even more chaos?

To use your example, think of a Polish comission traveling to Iran in the name of peace and visit nuclear energy facilities to research and question Iranian nuclear capabilities and come back to Europe stating they've seen nuclear weapon production lines instead and that Iran should be bombed to ashes.

This is the case here, an official Iranian comission is far from being interested in a proper calculation of the Holocaust.

An open society is not open to all, they are very well closed to anyone who wants to destroy it, if relations are not reciprocal then the door is shut.

So, again:

Originally Posted by Type XXIII

You sound like you're afraid they'll actually find proof of that Holocaust never happened, or that it was overblown. If they wish to fabricate proof, they can do so without even visiting Poland.

How are they supposed to change their opinions when they aren't allowed to see for themselves? Won't denying them this opportunity make it seem like Poland has something to hide?

Granted, the Iranian people would be told a different tale

Just like they imported the cartoons, a visit to Poland would be presented as the ultimate, hard-proof, extensively researched, evidence that the Holocaust did not exist, nothing would be explained and the Iranian population would be denied the truth. I'm afraid of how many more people they could mobilize with something like that. Allowing an Iranian comission to visit Poland would be like stabbing yourself in the gut.

[STEED]

Iran leader faces Holocaust case

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4741042.stm

I wonder what will happen :hmm:

[Dan D]

Criminal prosecution against Mr Ahmadinejad, the guy that can’t afford a tie, for his Holocaust denial?

a) by Iranian prosecuters: unlikely that the Iranian Penal code prohibits Holocaust Denial, otherwise there will probably be an amnesty law soon, that allows Mr Ahmadinejad to say such things, so: no.

b) prosecution in front of the International Crime Court: no, already not because Iran has not signed the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
http://www.icc-cpi.int/asp/statesparties.html

c) prosecution in Germany, in other words, will German prosecutors arrest him at the airport, if he decides to visit Germany: again no.

Mr Ahmadinejad is not German citizen , nor did he deny the Holocaust on German soil.
The German penal code does not apply for statements he as an Iranian made in Iran.

The German International Crime penal code does not apply either. This code is dealing with war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. For such crimes against the international community, there is no diplomatic immunity.
To deny Holocaust is no war crime, nor a crime against humanity ( in the legal sense of the term) and no genocide itself.

The idea that Germany has universal jurisdiction for all crimes world wide is somewhat off-point.
The Israeli lawyer has not understood the International Criminal Law.
But at least people talk about that issue. That is good.
Anyhow: Fak uff, Mr Ahmadinejad, sit-down comedian and would-be second-hand car dealer.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Dan D

Criminal prosecution against Mr Ahmadinejad, the guy that can’t afford a tie, for his Holocaust denial?

a) by Iranian prosecuters: unlikely that the Iranian Penal code prohibits Holocaust Denial, otherwise there will probably be an amnesty law soon, that allows Mr Ahmadinejad to say such things, so: no.

b) prosecution in front of the International Crime Court: no, already not because Iran has not signed the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
http://www.icc-cpi.int/asp/statesparties.html

c) prosecution in Germany, in other words, will German prosecutors arrest him at the airport, if he decides to visit Germany: again no.

Mr Ahmadinejad is not German citizen , nor did he deny the Holocaust on German soil.
The German penal code does not apply for statements he as an Iranian made in Iran.

The German International Crime penal code does not apply either. This code is dealing with war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. For such crimes against the international community, there is no diplomatic immunity.
To deny Holocaust is no war crime, nor a crime against humanity ( in the legal sense of the term) and no genocide itself.

The idea that Germany has universal jurisdiction for all crimes world wide is somewhat off-point.
The Israeli lawyer has not understood the International Criminal Law.
But at least people talk about that issue. That is good.
Anyhow: Fak uff, Mr Ahmadinejad, sit-down comedian and would-be second-hand car dealer.

http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=48997