Wowh! If they manage to reach that... - Page 2

Deamon · 02-08-06, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Stockholders are a pleague.

I call the stock system cancer of the economy.

Deamon

Iceman · 02-08-06, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceman

First time it was cleansed by water next is FIRE....hope your ready.

That must be the nukes right? I'm bulding my bomb shelter now so I'll be ready.

Lol...

Revelation 6
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Bomb shelter ain't gonna hide ya lmao... :rotfl: but as it Clearly sates...You will try to hide....

Skybird · 02-08-06, 07:17 PM

Now I know why reports of UFOs have faded out in the news in recent years. They have abducted enough individuals and have taken enough biological samples to reproduce homo sapiens for the galactic zoo, that now they do not need any more samples. Instead they spend their time pressing laserwarpspeed-pedals to triplatinum-metals, winning distance to our planet before God blows up this place and might become aware of their presence and blows them up as well, sicne he's already at it. Because we all know: big boys always prefer the bigger bang of two.

Scion · 02-09-06, 05:05 AM

Skybird, Can you please elaborate on why you hate stockholders so much? You also said that they did nothing... they invest an initial capital amount, generating cash for the issuing company...

I work for a stockbroker (but ironically do not hold any stocks, nor have anything to do with them in my duties) and am interested to hear what you think.

Skybird · 02-09-06, 06:15 AM

It's simply a difference if I pick up 10000 bucks, buy stocks, then every couple of times stroll by, open my hand and say "pay me!" That single time you place a banking order does not compare to the work that real workers and employees do day in, day out. This does nothing that compares in any way to the work the worker in that company do day in, day out, on a daily basis, with no escape from a life-ruling routine.

Or the real smart guys, that invest hundreds of thousands of their money, and all work they do is shifting their money from one investment font into the other, if they think it is better for their profit, making hundreds of thousands or even millions by that "work". what have they done they deserve that reward for? What have they build? What have they helped to change it for the better? Where have they supported the community. Where did they go beyond selfish interests? - Nothing. All they can show you is a piece of paper with their rights printed on it, and a couple of numbers. That's no work, that's a trick. My sympathy for people who bought stocks like those from the Telekom, and then lost immense money because those values were exaggerated and the stocks fell down an abyss, is limited. In a way it is something like a biblic penalty.

This is no work in a constructive meaning. nothing against not working, I am not on daily work myself currently, but demanding to be payed for that by the life-long effort of others is something I cannot squeeze into my ethical system. I do not want to be payed for not working but being in a position to exploit other people's work.

What's more, companies primary obligation today is to please their stockholders, ignoring the interests of the social community of their hosting nations, and ignoring the existential interest of their employees. Both are treated like dirt - if it is good for stockmarket's values and raises the profits for stockholders. You can read about such examples almost daily in the newspaper. Western nations currently are getting depleted of their existential basis, for the stockholding economy has changed business in a way that more and more people cannot take financial care of their own future or the social basis of their nations, but these nations at the same time must pay for the financial ruins the current changes in economy are leaving behind. the money that was circulating before to support the nation's structures - now has ended up in a few hands of people/institutions that act globally, are beyond being integrated in a national structure, and thus think they have no more moral responsebilities towards those nations and their working people that with their work once have founded the basis for these few people's rise. This is called treachery in my book.

Stockholding is not the same like leasing something for money (a car, a flat, a house, equipment, an ability).

Companies shall not orient their way of doing business to the profit interests of outsiders. Their responsebilities are with those who invest their lifetime and work into these companies, their responsebilities are with the nations that host them, and their communities. But today, economy has turned into a global battlefield much worse than it ever was before. Because it has changed from fighting for profits to a war of annihilating any opposition or rival. Once that has been achieved, the monopole for power is completed, and totally so. Power corrupts. Absolute power leads to total corruption.

Some months ago, an example from Germany, I already have referred to it months ago, but meanwhile the story has seen a new developement.

A German company, Grohe, world market leader in it's field, was bought by some foreign investment group, the family owning it wanted to retreat from business in general. the company was healthy and wrote black number, there were substantial profits. There were plans to expand. Huge black numbers. Not enough for the new investors. They bought it, but only payed a quarter or less of the sum with their own money, the rest with a credit from banks. Which means the selling partys got that money from that credit, but all of a sudden Grohe, healthy and writing black numbers, had immense debts, and needed to put pressure on it's employes for more work and lower wages, to pay for that credit, while the profit of the deal is earned by that investment group and shared by those who came together in that fond. After a minimum of time they sold it a second time, in the same way, by funding the deal with massive credits. They had made their profit, and got out of Dodge immediately. The new debts now were threatening for the life and very own existence of the comapny. It still produced well, led the market, but was aching under the financial burden of debts it was not responsible for. the new investor was a construction company from Amercia, and it's field of interests (building houses) correlated with the products of Grohe, sanitary installations. Nevertheless, the double credit Grohe needed to pay back was too much. The investing company later withdrew, leaving Grohe bancrupt. Hundreds lost their job, the company is braking off currently.

Remember, this was a healthy company, world market leader, black numbers. It's employees had a secured future for their families. Without their fault their work got abused, two investors took over, took away the money these workers have earned, and left their lifework as a bleeding wreck.

german economy just announced a new record in exports for 2005, again, we are world's number one in that. The top thirty companies in Germany, an almost majority of them earns record wins since many years. So much for economical crisis in Germany. Almost all of these companies are killing jobs by the tens of thousands. they even receive subsidies from Brussel for moving their sites to the East. Subsidies the now jobless worker pay for with their taxes. All this in the name of globalization. Which only is pressure by stockmarkets and investors to maximize the profits for anonymous investors who have nothing to do with those they press for the last drops of lifeblood. It may not be criminal by laws, which means only that the laws are questionable, because it surely is criminal in an ethical meaning. and it is thr rule of the day nowadays. And all Western countries are suffering from it.

If â€žinvestorâ€œ would mean that someone is investing having an interest in the products of the companies he is investing it, okay, that would not be much a problem, but today â€œinvestorâ€ means a party that has interests that has an exclusive fixation on absorbing that companies financial wins only, and taking every measurement needed to maximize these to-be-absorbed-wins for their benefit of the â€œinvestorsâ€ â€“ and at the disadvantage of those who do the real work .

It's okay to lend something you own for money, if the price is fair and you do not hold a monopole (so that you cannot demand any price you want). Stockholding is something different, it does not compare. For that reason, I never bought stocks although a past friend of my parents, a banker, offered his help with his knowledge. I have convinced my mom, too. She also sold her stocks. We may have lesser money that way, but nevertheless we have enough - and do not exploit the work of people who cannot escape their dependence on their jobs for existential reasons. Feels much better that way. Itâ€™s the right way. In our house where several flats are for rent, there is a single woman currently living without paying a rent. We know that she just got divorced, lost her children to her former husband, and also lost her job. She is okay, it is not her fault, I know her. She is no â€œparasiteâ€, as weak and dependent people today so often and so easily get accused of being. Her situation is desperate. telling her now that she has to leave because she can't pay the rent? I don't do that. I just tell that to illustrate that I am serious on what I said in the paragraphs above. she will recover, and hopefully find a new job, build a fundament for a new existence. Until then I am not the one to give her the last kick to bring her down completely. And that is very different to what many â€œinvestorsâ€ nowadays would do in my place.

TteFAboB · 02-09-06, 07:27 AM

What? Skybird doesn't work full time everyday? Really? Who would've thought of that... :rotfl:

02-08-06, 07:17 PM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,630 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Now I know why reports of UFOs have faded out in the news in recent years. They have abducted enough individuals and have taken enough biological samples to reproduce homo sapiens for the galactic zoo, that now they do not need any more samples. Instead they spend their time pressing laserwarpspeed-pedals to triplatinum-metals, winning distance to our planet before God blows up this place and might become aware of their presence and blows them up as well, sicne he's already at it. Because we all know: big boys always prefer the bigger bang of two. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-09-06, 06:15 AM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,630 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It's simply a difference if I pick up 10000 bucks, buy stocks, then every couple of times stroll by, open my hand and say "pay me!" That single time you place a banking order does not compare to the work that real workers and employees do day in, day out. This does nothing that compares in any way to the work the worker in that company do day in, day out, on a daily basis, with no escape from a life-ruling routine. Or the real smart guys, that invest hundreds of thousands of their money, and all work they do is shifting their money from one investment font into the other, if they think it is better for their profit, making hundreds of thousands or even millions by that "work". what have they done they deserve that reward for? What have they build? What have they helped to change it for the better? Where have they supported the community. Where did they go beyond selfish interests? - Nothing. All they can show you is a piece of paper with their rights printed on it, and a couple of numbers. That's no work, that's a trick. My sympathy for people who bought stocks like those from the Telekom, and then lost immense money because those values were exaggerated and the stocks fell down an abyss, is limited. In a way it is something like a biblic penalty. This is no work in a constructive meaning. nothing against not working, I am not on daily work myself currently, but demanding to be payed for that by the life-long effort of others is something I cannot squeeze into my ethical system. I do not want to be payed for not working but being in a position to exploit other people's work. What's more, companies primary obligation today is to please their stockholders, ignoring the interests of the social community of their hosting nations, and ignoring the existential interest of their employees. Both are treated like dirt - if it is good for stockmarket's values and raises the profits for stockholders. You can read about such examples almost daily in the newspaper. Western nations currently are getting depleted of their existential basis, for the stockholding economy has changed business in a way that more and more people cannot take financial care of their own future or the social basis of their nations, but these nations at the same time must pay for the financial ruins the current changes in economy are leaving behind. the money that was circulating before to support the nation's structures - now has ended up in a few hands of people/institutions that act globally, are beyond being integrated in a national structure, and thus think they have no more moral responsebilities towards those nations and their working people that with their work once have founded the basis for these few people's rise. This is called treachery in my book. Stockholding is not the same like leasing something for money (a car, a flat, a house, equipment, an ability). Companies shall not orient their way of doing business to the profit interests of outsiders. Their responsebilities are with those who invest their lifetime and work into these companies, their responsebilities are with the nations that host them, and their communities. But today, economy has turned into a global battlefield much worse than it ever was before. Because it has changed from fighting for profits to a war of annihilating any opposition or rival. Once that has been achieved, the monopole for power is completed, and totally so. Power corrupts. Absolute power leads to total corruption. Some months ago, an example from Germany, I already have referred to it months ago, but meanwhile the story has seen a new developement. A German company, Grohe, world market leader in it's field, was bought by some foreign investment group, the family owning it wanted to retreat from business in general. the company was healthy and wrote black number, there were substantial profits. There were plans to expand. Huge black numbers. Not enough for the new investors. They bought it, but only payed a quarter or less of the sum with their own money, the rest with a credit from banks. Which means the selling partys got that money from that credit, but all of a sudden Grohe, healthy and writing black numbers, had immense debts, and needed to put pressure on it's employes for more work and lower wages, to pay for that credit, while the profit of the deal is earned by that investment group and shared by those who came together in that fond. After a minimum of time they sold it a second time, in the same way, by funding the deal with massive credits. They had made their profit, and got out of Dodge immediately. The new debts now were threatening for the life and very own existence of the comapny. It still produced well, led the market, but was aching under the financial burden of debts it was not responsible for. the new investor was a construction company from Amercia, and it's field of interests (building houses) correlated with the products of Grohe, sanitary installations. Nevertheless, the double credit Grohe needed to pay back was too much. The investing company later withdrew, leaving Grohe bancrupt. Hundreds lost their job, the company is braking off currently. Remember, this was a healthy company, world market leader, black numbers. It's employees had a secured future for their families. Without their fault their work got abused, two investors took over, took away the money these workers have earned, and left their lifework as a bleeding wreck. german economy just announced a new record in exports for 2005, again, we are world's number one in that. The top thirty companies in Germany, an almost majority of them earns record wins since many years. So much for economical crisis in Germany. Almost all of these companies are killing jobs by the tens of thousands. they even receive subsidies from Brussel for moving their sites to the East. Subsidies the now jobless worker pay for with their taxes. All this in the name of globalization. Which only is pressure by stockmarkets and investors to maximize the profits for anonymous investors who have nothing to do with those they press for the last drops of lifeblood. It may not be criminal by laws, which means only that the laws are questionable, because it surely is criminal in an ethical meaning. and it is thr rule of the day nowadays. And all Western countries are suffering from it. If â€žinvestorâ€œ would mean that someone is investing having an interest in the products of the companies he is investing it, okay, that would not be much a problem, but today â€œinvestorâ€ means a party that has interests that has an exclusive fixation on absorbing that companies financial wins only, and taking every measurement needed to maximize these to-be-absorbed-wins for their benefit of the â€œinvestorsâ€ â€“ and at the disadvantage of those who do the real work . It's okay to lend something you own for money, if the price is fair and you do not hold a monopole (so that you cannot demand any price you want). Stockholding is something different, it does not compare. For that reason, I never bought stocks although a past friend of my parents, a banker, offered his help with his knowledge. I have convinced my mom, too. She also sold her stocks. We may have lesser money that way, but nevertheless we have enough - and do not exploit the work of people who cannot escape their dependence on their jobs for existential reasons. Feels much better that way. Itâ€™s the right way. In our house where several flats are for rent, there is a single woman currently living without paying a rent. We know that she just got divorced, lost her children to her former husband, and also lost her job. She is okay, it is not her fault, I know her. She is no â€œparasiteâ€, as weak and dependent people today so often and so easily get accused of being. Her situation is desperate. telling her now that she has to leave because she can't pay the rent? I don't do that. I just tell that to illustrate that I am serious on what I said in the paragraphs above. she will recover, and hopefully find a new job, build a fundament for a new existence. Until then I am not the one to give her the last kick to bring her down completely. And that is very different to what many â€œinvestorsâ€ nowadays would do in my place. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

02-09-06, 07:27 AM	#6
TteFAboB Admiral Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 2,247 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	What? Skybird doesn't work full time everyday? Really? Who would've thought of that... :rotfl: __________________ "Tout ce qui est exagéré est insignifiant." ("All that is exaggerated is insignificant.") - Talleyrand

02-09-06, 05:05 AM	#4
Scion Sailor man Join Date: May 2001 Location: New Zealand Posts: 47 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Skybird, Can you please elaborate on why you hate stockholders so much? You also said that they did nothing... they invest an initial capital amount, generating cash for the issuing company... I work for a stockbroker (but ironically do not hold any stocks, nor have anything to do with them in my duties) and am interested to hear what you think.