Danish, Swedish, Norwegian and Chilean embassys burning!

[sonar732]

I don't have cable so I can't follow the coverage. However, I can put money down that Syria didn't stop them from storming the embassy.

[The Avon Lady]

Don't smell no smoke over here.

[tycho102]

Originally Posted by Gorduz

how can a cartoon printed in a newspaper in Norway bring out so much anger.

It's just an excuse. The imams tell them to riot over this, they riot over this. That's how the gangs are setup. When Al Capone told his men to hit the other don, they hit the don.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Don't smell no smoke over here.

You must be having a ball down there? Tell us. You want to say, " I told you so.."

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Happy Times

You must be having a ball down there? Tell us. You want to say, " I told you so.."

I told you so? Yes.

A ball? No.

[Catfish]

Hello TypeXXIII,
apart from what i saw in the news i have some friends that studied in Goettingen, Germany in the eighties. I still have contact to them, as well i've been in Syria recently.
I guess you have no idea what it is like there - the dictatorship controls everything and everywhere. You cannot discuss anything freely, the common people have no idea what it is like to live in a "free country" (e.g. in Denmark). They are frustrated because they have no influence of the "state" at all, this is no democracy, not even a kingdom.

The dictatorship and the security police use every argument against the west that they will be able to find, it does not need any evidence. Main thing is it distracts the people from inner problems like killing the Kurds, restrictive politics, bad economics, poverty etc..
The imams are only jumping the bandwagon and canalize the reservoir of anger and frustration towards their goals. They certainly lay the roots for forthcoming years of hate in the children, and that is why i will not believe an imam speaking of tolerance and the like - simple as that.

If the danish prime minister says he will not go to control the news media because he simply is not able to do this in a free society, no one in Syria believes him. If a member of Syria's government told a newspaper to hold back information or whatever this newspaper will obey - or the editor and boss will be thrown out and executed.
What i want to point out is the control of the state is just as tight or tense that it will not allow any "free" action like spontaneous burning of embassies.

If you think of "spontaneous" burning of books, terrorizing jews and the ability of freee speech under the Nazi regime you will get a glimpse of what it is like.

Greetings,
Catfish

[JSLTIGER]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I told you so? Yes.

A ball? No.

Anyone who has followed the Israel/Palestinian situation on any level beyond the news should be able to say "I told you so." The real question is why the rest of the world did not pick up on these sentiments sooner.

[Happy Times]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

I told you so? Yes.

A ball? No.

Whats the common opinion/analysis in Israel about how the conflict will play out?

[XabbaRus]

Disgusting.

AFAIK the Syrians didn't provide any security even though they had been asked by the governments involved as they feared attacks. It is an attack by proxy.

Part of teh debate here is whether it was responsible to have printed those cartoons and were they drawn deliberaetly to cause offence.

Well there are different levels. Maybe the journalist/cartoonist went too far in causing offence. I personally think not considering the cartoons I have seen about the Pope, Christ and Jews in the Arab press.

But as the Danish ambassador was saying on BBC24 (I think it was him) because of teh mistake of a single journalist why should other Danes have to suffere eg the ones who lost their jobs due to a boycott of Danish firms, those who might have been hurt in the riots etc..

As written on the BBC site IIRC one muslim top guy said what makes people more prejudiced against Mulsims, seeing cartoons like that or the riots people see on the TV.

Sure get offended, that is your right. Yes you can demonstrate, but peacefully, not burning flags and threatening to job peoples heads off.

Maybe in the west we don't have so much "respect" for religion as maybe 20 or 30 years ago but we have always taken the mickey out of it from a long way back. Part of cultural development in my opinion.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Gorduz

how can a cartoon printed in a newspaper in Norway bring out so much anger. I blame the media for flaming this Mohammad caricatures up in the skys. But the real problem for Norway now is that we now have lost all credibility to be able to do diplomatic work.

No you haven't. You have to keep in mind, these people are primitive. It is not Norway's fault.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by CCIP

Well...

This has decidedly made my view more negative - it doesn't make me any less of a skeptic of the West, but decidedly more of a skeptic of the 'East' here. I hope this has similar effects on as many other people as possible.

Actually, this has not changed my opinion one bit, I already felt like you are beginning to feel.

[CCIP]

I know. Some of us were obviously a little ahead, but noone's perfect.

This doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to swing to the right on the political spectrum or declare my support for war on Iraq/Iran - but I'll call a spade a spade.

Also, I hope something is done. Talking to people about it today, I think my initial conclusion was that if the West doesn't respond with political or economic sanctions of some sort, especially if this continues, they will seriously be compromising their position.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Actually, this has not changed my opinion one bit, I already felt like you are beginning to feel.

Not just since these days, but since one year, I saw myself in need to change a damn lot of my opinions that I held in earlier years for so long. To think how well-meaning I once thought of Islamic culture ten years ago and during my "time of travellings", and compare it to today makes me wonder if I am really the same person anymore.

I have ended my adventure time, I have a more indiffrent attitude to some things that in earlier years were important to me, and I do not pay so much attention anymore to what people think about me. I assume this culminated in an effect that equals that of stepping back from a big puzzle I was working on for years - and from theat greater perspective all the isolated details suddenly fell into their right places all by themselves, revealing the overall picture. Seen that way, I have not wasted time and did nothing wrong - i reached the final goal that was to be acchieved.

Years ago I was more tolerant and of good will and intention towards islam. but that was before I somewhat completed to combine personal experinces in foreign locations with academical knowledge. the latter let the first appear in different light since one year now, or longer. Also, some contradictory memories of events during travelling - today suddenly make sense. Unfortunately, all these changes in my perception of Islam are for the worse, not for the better. When I think of Iran, which I once held some hope for, I feel dissapointed, and not just because of Ahmadinejadh (whom I do not expect to become a lasting figure on the political stage).

I changed from Paulus to Saulus, it seems. I do not like it, but let's face it - I have turned into a hardliner towards Islam. Hurts my ego to admit that I had follies on my mind, but makes me feel better in my no longer twosplit attitude. Like a relief. Don't trying to be a nice guy anymore. They want the hard way of playing - okay with me. that game can be played by both sides.

I also have re-read the better part of my literature on Islam during last year. Much of it seemed to be completely new books to me. Memories from my travellings are now feeding back into the intellectual input. I think, growing age also has somethign to do with it.

I think we are heading for severe turbulence. Which is a chance to see what in our setup is solid, and what is weak.

[TteFAboB]

As I suspected, the damage to the Chilean embassy is completely collateral, it would be a nice step towards requesting apologies from Denmark if the stormers apologized to Chile for the useless aggression, it's their loss afterall, I suppose, who wants to open an embassy in Syria knowning that if any newspaper publishes anything Syrians don't like your embassy will go down on fire direct or even indirectly? Anyway, if Americans can't always drop an accurate GPS or laser guided bomb from the sky on target, what would you expect from a guy with a Molotov standing right in front of his target?

[CCIP]

Ironically, I think the ones being helped most by this are the (not neccesarily extreme) right-wing parties in Europe and America. That doesn't particularly excite me but, in fairness, that may also be a good indicator of the stupidity of the more left-wing ones on this issue.

A mess, this is.