Italian Soldati re-skins (To be released with next HT mod) - Page 2

blumen-bts · 11-29-05, 04:39 AM

excuse me for my bad english.
The coloration was various between the several units and also in function of the year.
The used colors were: clear gray, medium gray and black according to various schemes of coloration.
See the link for examples:

http://www.larsenal.com/Source/catal...gia/RM_006.jpg

http://www.steelnavy.com/RMNewModelsOct2005.htm

Last thing, the "Navigatori" model of the game is completely mistaken.

Marhkimov · 11-29-05, 04:44 AM

Thank you for the links and color models. They will be of much help to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blumen-bts

Last thing, the "Navigatori" model of the game is completely mistaken.

Well, we gotta remember that SH3 is just a game. The devs did their best overall job to capture the likeness of real ships and submarines, and that is all we can ask for.

Anyways, I don't think they did such a bad job. I'm wondering, what makes you say that? :hmm:

blumen-bts · 11-29-05, 06:19 AM

Quote:

we gotta remember that SH3 is just a game

yes it's only a game

no problem ...

It is only a consideration....I work on "navigatori" model for DC/SH2 and I know well this destroyer class .

Scire · 11-29-05, 07:30 AM

Hi Marhkimov,

This info is mainly based on some of the chapters on this subject in the "Navi Italian" series of books, the Vitochart number 25 for Axis and Japanese Warship Camouflage Colors, information from some other publications, and a study of a lot of photos. Working thus from secondary sources it can only be a first approach to the subject but hopefully it will be useful to the modder.
Like other navies of the time the Italian navy experimented with camouflage painting towards the end of WW I. After the war the Regia Marina returned to a standard light gray paint. Only torpedo boats had a dark gray over-all scheme into the late twenties. From the early thirties onwards the standard scheme for all Italian combatant ships was as follows.

Hull and upperworks - Grigio Azzuro Chiaro, (Light Blue-Gray)
Waterline - Nero, (Black).
Underwater hull - Rossa Mattone, (Brick Red), or - Verde Scuro, (Dark Green).
Decks, (steel), - Grigio Ferro, (Iron Gray) also known as, - Grigio Ponte, (Bridge Gray).
Decks, (wood), - Unpainted. (After the war began wood decks were painted over in Grigio Ferro).
Boats - Grigio Azzuro Chiaro with the lower hull Nero.
Interior walls - Verde Chiaro, (Light Green).
Command bridges - Blu Scuro, (Dark Blue).
Interior walls of gun turrets - Blu Scuro.
Anchors & chains - Nero.

After the Battle of Punta Stilo in the late summer of 1940, (when Italian warships came under attack from their own air forces), all Italian warships recieved oblique red and white stripes painted on the forecastie forward of the breakwater as a recognition marking for "friendly" aircraft. Some ships also had these stripes painted on the after deck. Shipboard biplanes had their top wings painted this way also. The angle of the stripes was either 45 degrees or, (more often), 60 degrees to the axis of the ship. This marking system was in use through the end of 1943.

In 1940 the Italians began testing camouflage designs based initially on patterns from previous experience in WWI. A few small auxiliaries were used for this purpose. The first major fleet units to receive camouflage patterns were the BB LITTORIO, CA FIUME, and the submarine MILLO in the spring of 1941. These were followed by the BB DUIUO, CL ATTENDOLO, and BB VITTORIO VENETO, all in early-to-mid 1941. The ATTENDOLO pattern was designed by the famous naval artist Claudus. It was a multi-colored scheme, a variation of which was adapted to the battleships ANDREA DORIA and GIULIO CESARE in late 1941. Colors were Azzuro Opaco, Grigio Chiaro Opaco, and Nero. CONTE DI CAVOUR in late 1941 also used this scheme with another panel of Bianco Sporco Opaca added to the pattern. By the end of 1941 camouflage became usual for the ships of the Regia Marina. It would seem that all warship types from destroyers upwards carried a camouflage pattern at one time or another. At first there was an experimental phase, (late 1941 - early 1942), where many colors were used. These were:

Bianco Sporco Opaco - (Foul Flat White).
Grigio Chiaro - (Light Gray).
Gregio Cenerino - (Ash Gray).
Gregio Scuro - (Dark Gray).
Grigio Molto Scuro - (Very Dark Gray).
Nero - (Black).
Bianco Vedastro Opaco - (Flat Greenish White) = Verde Chiarissimo.
Verde Chiaro - (Light Green).
Verde Scuro - (Dark Green). Giallo Verde - (Yellow-Green).
Giallo - (Yellow). Azzuro - (Blue).

Then, in the summer of 1942, the first standard painting instructions appeared. These consisted of 3-color design schemes using: Bianco Sporco Opaco - Grigio Chiaro - Grigio Scuro. They consisted of areas of light and dark gray with dull white areas at the bow and stern to make the ship appear to be shorter. Usually port and starboard sides had different patterns. With some ships the light areas at bow and stern were first painted in Bianco Vedastro Opaco, later being painted over in Bianco Sporco Opaco. Many ships also had false bow waves in Bianco Sporco Opaco. Late in this phase of camouflage development most ships had the white portions at bow and stern repainted in light gray and integrated into the camouflage pattern.

In 1943 a second generation of official paint standards appeared. These were generally of 2-tone patterns using Grigio Chiaro and Grigio Scuro. The identification letters on destroyers and torpedo boats generally remained in place even after the ship was camouflaged. In some cases the color was changed to Grigio Chiaro or Bianco, (White), to allow them to blend into the camouflage scheme.

During 1944, (cobelligerency period), those Italian ships that fought for the allies were painted in a standard scheme in accord with the USN Measure 22 or Royal Navy Admiralty Standard design. The hull was in Grigio Scuro, upperworks in Grigio Chiaro. Those ships under German control initially retained their Italian camouflage paint. Later many were repainted overall with Gregio Scuro or other dark grays.

After the war many of the surviving units retained their wartime painting into 1948. Light gray upperworks and dark gray hull was a common scheme as was light or dark gray overall. In 1948 the Italian Navy returned to the pre-war standard of Grigio Azzuro Chiaro overall with Red identification letters. The I.D. letters were replaced by NATO pennant numbers after 1953.

The Italian names for the colors used in this article are from Italian publications dealing with this subject. I do not know if these are the official designations. The Vitocharts in part use other names for some of the colors but the names used here are consistent with all the other sources I consulted. It seems that there were also systems using letters and numbers identifying the paints. The numbers in these listings give the year of introduction. I found indications for listing for the years (19)10, 17, 24, 29, 37, 38, 40, and 42. It seems very unlikely that the colors really differed or changed from one listing to the next. Probably every change in adminstrative instructions brought a change in the numbers on the color lists. The color itself was designated by a letter. Unfortunately there appears to have been no logical system for the letter designations. Some colors had a prefix, SP, which indicated that they were experimental. For example, LITTORIO and FlUME received an experimental scheme consisting of SP 4213, (a blue/green), SP 42C, (a gray/green named Grigio Ferro), and SP 42F, (a olive color named Verde Oliva Minetico). The 37B color, (Gregio Ponto), later became 42G and seems to be the standard color used for decks and bridges, which was also known as Grigio Ferro (iron gray). It is all very confusing. From 1943 there was a designation system in use consisting of the letter prefix CL and the combination of a cypher and a letter. In this area there is need for much additional research.

The chart shows 10 colors covering those mainly used by the Italian Navy during World War II. Colors include:

Grigio Scuro (Dark Gray),
Girgio Chiaro (Light Gray),
Blu Scuro (Dark Blue),
Azzuro (Light Blue),
Marrone Verdastro (Greenish Dark Brown),
Grigio-Azzuro Chiaro (Light Blue-Gray),
Verde Chiaro (Light Green),
Giallo Verde (Light Yellow-Green),
Bianco Sporco Opaco (Matt Foul White),
Rosso (Red).

Schultzy · 11-29-05, 07:40 AM

Beautiful WIPs mate.

I'm gonna have to get a transfer to the 29th and start sailing in the med once you finish them!!

HundertzehnGustav · 11-29-05, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marhkimov

Yeah, I am planning on finishing the rest of the hull.

But It is getting very tedious because I have to pack the skin into the dat file every time I need to check on the stripe alignment. That means packing the skin, booting SH3, loading naval academy, taking screenshots, quitting, then back to skinning some more, and repeat whenever I need to check on something again... Skinning is naturally a time-consuming process... but OUCH, that is a lot of wasted time...

On the other hand, it is much easier to skin on multi-skin ships because you can alter-tab in and out of the game, and skins will refresh in realtime while you are skinning... Soooooo much easier to get something done.

It will be slow until Sergbuto helps me to make the Soldati a multi-skinned boat. Soon I hope.

Heh massa Marhkimov

what i do:
paint the entire ship: do screenshots in game, return to the paint priogram, and check out my screenshots.
there i see what i dont like, and i can correct it if i care enough about the problem.

and
i dont pack the textures into the DAT files, i put the TGA files into the texture tnormal folder...
hope it fastens up and improves your painting experience

Marhkimov · 11-29-05, 01:02 PM

Oh WOW! Color charts!!!

Perfecto!!!

And thanks for the tip, HundertzehnGustav.

I forgot that I can just put the skin into the texture folder.

Marhkimov · 12-02-05, 02:01 PM

See first post for more pics.

ScirÃ¨,

Do you think the colors are right? Might the hull color be too bright?

Does anyone notice anything else?

Scire · 12-02-05, 06:08 PM

Marhkimov

i think the colour is correct , remeber that the no camo version have always the identification letters painted in the forward.
The letters scheme is.

AP Alpino
AI Ascari
AR Artigliere
AV Aviere
BG Bersagliere
CN Camicia Nera
CR Corazziere
FC Fuciliere
GE Geniere
GN Granatiere
CB Carabiniere
CA Corsaro
LG Legionario
MT Mitragliere
SQ Squadrista
VL Velite

in the photo you can see the "Alpino" - AP - as sample.

please note the very rare artwork (the roman fascio) sometimes applied by the crew in the same way of the u boats ensigna (but never on camo version)

draft line

the "Legionario" with camo pattern. Please note the "Fu.Mo 21/39 - De.Te" german radiotelemeter antenna.

Marhkimov · 12-02-05, 06:23 PM

I wish I could add the identification letters, but there is a problem with SH3 texturing. The lettering would be correct on one side, but reversed on the other.

"AP" would turn out to be "PA", and not to mention that the letters themselves would be reversed.

For this reason, I think we will have to settle for totally blank skins.

btw, I am currently skinning the Legionario...

Type941 · 12-02-05, 06:28 PM

looking good. nice skins.

Scire · 12-02-05, 06:30 PM

Understand!
No care for the letters it remains a great works!

Impatience for the Legionario......
I think Rubini too hurry up for your skins!!

chris911 · 12-02-05, 10:21 PM

Those are really nice . Maybe i will do another italian DD with the two funnel design so we can use them on this one too.Since everyone wants italian Ships atm that would be a nice add on.

Marhkimov · 12-02-05, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris911

Those are really nice . Maybe i will do another italian DD with the two funnel design so we can use them on this one too.Since everyone wants italian Ships atm that would be a nice add on.

Yeah, go for it. That'd be nice.

If you do decide to model another Italian DD, I'd recommend doing the Navigatori class. It's a very versatile ship.

Marhkimov · 12-03-05, 05:56 AM

^Bombardiere - I count three tones in the picture: a white, a grey, and a dark. My guess for the colors are:
Light area - Bianco Sporco Opaco (foul flat white)
Grey area - Grigio Chiaro (light grey)
Dark area - Grigio Scuro (dark grey)

Does that seem correct? Or are there 4 tones instead of 3?

In any case, this is what the WIP looks like:

^Velite (in 1944 late war colors) - two tone camo, dark grey on the bottom and light grey on the top.

I'm just placing some pictures here so that I can find them in one neat place...

^Alpino

^Aviere

^Mitragliere

^Velite

11-29-05, 04:39 AM	#1
blumen-bts Watch Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: milano - Italy Posts: 29 Downloads: 34 Uploads: 0	excuse me for my bad english. The coloration was various between the several units and also in function of the year. The used colors were: clear gray, medium gray and black according to various schemes of coloration. See the link for examples: http://www.larsenal.com/Source/catal...gia/RM_006.jpg http://www.steelnavy.com/RMNewModelsOct2005.htm Last thing, the "Navigatori" model of the game is completely mistaken. __________________

11-29-05, 07:30 AM	#4
Scire Gunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: La Spezia Italy Posts: 93 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Hi Marhkimov, This info is mainly based on some of the chapters on this subject in the "Navi Italian" series of books, the Vitochart number 25 for Axis and Japanese Warship Camouflage Colors, information from some other publications, and a study of a lot of photos. Working thus from secondary sources it can only be a first approach to the subject but hopefully it will be useful to the modder. Like other navies of the time the Italian navy experimented with camouflage painting towards the end of WW I. After the war the Regia Marina returned to a standard light gray paint. Only torpedo boats had a dark gray over-all scheme into the late twenties. From the early thirties onwards the standard scheme for all Italian combatant ships was as follows. Hull and upperworks - Grigio Azzuro Chiaro, (Light Blue-Gray) Waterline - Nero, (Black). Underwater hull - Rossa Mattone, (Brick Red), or - Verde Scuro, (Dark Green). Decks, (steel), - Grigio Ferro, (Iron Gray) also known as, - Grigio Ponte, (Bridge Gray). Decks, (wood), - Unpainted. (After the war began wood decks were painted over in Grigio Ferro). Boats - Grigio Azzuro Chiaro with the lower hull Nero. Interior walls - Verde Chiaro, (Light Green). Command bridges - Blu Scuro, (Dark Blue). Interior walls of gun turrets - Blu Scuro. Anchors & chains - Nero. After the Battle of Punta Stilo in the late summer of 1940, (when Italian warships came under attack from their own air forces), all Italian warships recieved oblique red and white stripes painted on the forecastie forward of the breakwater as a recognition marking for "friendly" aircraft. Some ships also had these stripes painted on the after deck. Shipboard biplanes had their top wings painted this way also. The angle of the stripes was either 45 degrees or, (more often), 60 degrees to the axis of the ship. This marking system was in use through the end of 1943. In 1940 the Italians began testing camouflage designs based initially on patterns from previous experience in WWI. A few small auxiliaries were used for this purpose. The first major fleet units to receive camouflage patterns were the BB LITTORIO, CA FIUME, and the submarine MILLO in the spring of 1941. These were followed by the BB DUIUO, CL ATTENDOLO, and BB VITTORIO VENETO, all in early-to-mid 1941. The ATTENDOLO pattern was designed by the famous naval artist Claudus. It was a multi-colored scheme, a variation of which was adapted to the battleships ANDREA DORIA and GIULIO CESARE in late 1941. Colors were Azzuro Opaco, Grigio Chiaro Opaco, and Nero. CONTE DI CAVOUR in late 1941 also used this scheme with another panel of Bianco Sporco Opaca added to the pattern. By the end of 1941 camouflage became usual for the ships of the Regia Marina. It would seem that all warship types from destroyers upwards carried a camouflage pattern at one time or another. At first there was an experimental phase, (late 1941 - early 1942), where many colors were used. These were: Bianco Sporco Opaco - (Foul Flat White). Grigio Chiaro - (Light Gray). Gregio Cenerino - (Ash Gray). Gregio Scuro - (Dark Gray). Grigio Molto Scuro - (Very Dark Gray). Nero - (Black). Bianco Vedastro Opaco - (Flat Greenish White) = Verde Chiarissimo. Verde Chiaro - (Light Green). Verde Scuro - (Dark Green). Giallo Verde - (Yellow-Green). Giallo - (Yellow). Azzuro - (Blue). Then, in the summer of 1942, the first standard painting instructions appeared. These consisted of 3-color design schemes using: Bianco Sporco Opaco - Grigio Chiaro - Grigio Scuro. They consisted of areas of light and dark gray with dull white areas at the bow and stern to make the ship appear to be shorter. Usually port and starboard sides had different patterns. With some ships the light areas at bow and stern were first painted in Bianco Vedastro Opaco, later being painted over in Bianco Sporco Opaco. Many ships also had false bow waves in Bianco Sporco Opaco. Late in this phase of camouflage development most ships had the white portions at bow and stern repainted in light gray and integrated into the camouflage pattern. In 1943 a second generation of official paint standards appeared. These were generally of 2-tone patterns using Grigio Chiaro and Grigio Scuro. The identification letters on destroyers and torpedo boats generally remained in place even after the ship was camouflaged. In some cases the color was changed to Grigio Chiaro or Bianco, (White), to allow them to blend into the camouflage scheme. During 1944, (cobelligerency period), those Italian ships that fought for the allies were painted in a standard scheme in accord with the USN Measure 22 or Royal Navy Admiralty Standard design. The hull was in Grigio Scuro, upperworks in Grigio Chiaro. Those ships under German control initially retained their Italian camouflage paint. Later many were repainted overall with Gregio Scuro or other dark grays. After the war many of the surviving units retained their wartime painting into 1948. Light gray upperworks and dark gray hull was a common scheme as was light or dark gray overall. In 1948 the Italian Navy returned to the pre-war standard of Grigio Azzuro Chiaro overall with Red identification letters. The I.D. letters were replaced by NATO pennant numbers after 1953. The Italian names for the colors used in this article are from Italian publications dealing with this subject. I do not know if these are the official designations. The Vitocharts in part use other names for some of the colors but the names used here are consistent with all the other sources I consulted. It seems that there were also systems using letters and numbers identifying the paints. The numbers in these listings give the year of introduction. I found indications for listing for the years (19)10, 17, 24, 29, 37, 38, 40, and 42. It seems very unlikely that the colors really differed or changed from one listing to the next. Probably every change in adminstrative instructions brought a change in the numbers on the color lists. The color itself was designated by a letter. Unfortunately there appears to have been no logical system for the letter designations. Some colors had a prefix, SP, which indicated that they were experimental. For example, LITTORIO and FlUME received an experimental scheme consisting of SP 4213, (a blue/green), SP 42C, (a gray/green named Grigio Ferro), and SP 42F, (a olive color named Verde Oliva Minetico). The 37B color, (Gregio Ponto), later became 42G and seems to be the standard color used for decks and bridges, which was also known as Grigio Ferro (iron gray). It is all very confusing. From 1943 there was a designation system in use consisting of the letter prefix CL and the combination of a cypher and a letter. In this area there is need for much additional research. The chart shows 10 colors covering those mainly used by the Italian Navy during World War II. Colors include: Grigio Scuro (Dark Gray), Girgio Chiaro (Light Gray), Blu Scuro (Dark Blue), Azzuro (Light Blue), Marrone Verdastro (Greenish Dark Brown), Grigio-Azzuro Chiaro (Light Blue-Gray), Verde Chiaro (Light Green), Giallo Verde (Light Yellow-Green), Bianco Sporco Opaco (Matt Foul White), Rosso (Red). __________________ "Six Italians, dressed in rather unusual diving suits and equipped with materials of laughably little cost, have swung the military balance of power in the Mediterranean in favour of the Axis". Sir Winston Churchill, on the sinking of HMS Valiant and HMS Queen Elizabeth by Italian Combat Divers

11-29-05, 01:02 PM	#7
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Oh WOW! Color charts!!! Perfecto!!! And thanks for the tip, HundertzehnGustav. I forgot that I can just put the skin into the texture folder. __________________ It takes two to tango

12-02-05, 02:01 PM	#8
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	See first post for more pics. ScirÃ¨, Do you think the colors are right? Might the hull color be too bright? Does anyone notice anything else? __________________ It takes two to tango

12-02-05, 06:08 PM	#9
Scire Gunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: La Spezia Italy Posts: 93 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Marhkimov i think the colour is correct , remeber that the no camo version have always the identification letters painted in the forward. The letters scheme is. AP Alpino AI Ascari AR Artigliere AV Aviere BG Bersagliere CN Camicia Nera CR Corazziere FC Fuciliere GE Geniere GN Granatiere CB Carabiniere CA Corsaro LG Legionario MT Mitragliere SQ Squadrista VL Velite in the photo you can see the "Alpino" - AP - as sample. please note the very rare artwork (the roman fascio) sometimes applied by the crew in the same way of the u boats ensigna (but never on camo version) draft line the "Legionario" with camo pattern. Please note the "Fu.Mo 21/39 - De.Te" german radiotelemeter antenna. __________________ "Six Italians, dressed in rather unusual diving suits and equipped with materials of laughably little cost, have swung the military balance of power in the Mediterranean in favour of the Axis". Sir Winston Churchill, on the sinking of HMS Valiant and HMS Queen Elizabeth by Italian Combat Divers

12-02-05, 06:23 PM	#10
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I wish I could add the identification letters, but there is a problem with SH3 texturing. The lettering would be correct on one side, but reversed on the other. "AP" would turn out to be "PA", and not to mention that the letters themselves would be reversed. For this reason, I think we will have to settle for totally blank skins. btw, I am currently skinning the Legionario... __________________ It takes two to tango

12-02-05, 06:28 PM	#11
Type941 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: U-52 Posts: 1,270 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	looking good. nice skins. __________________ Sink the Bismarck SH3 Movie

12-02-05, 06:30 PM	#12
Scire Gunner Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: La Spezia Italy Posts: 93 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Understand! No care for the letters it remains a great works! Impatience for the Legionario...... I think Rubini too hurry up for your skins!! __________________ "Six Italians, dressed in rather unusual diving suits and equipped with materials of laughably little cost, have swung the military balance of power in the Mediterranean in favour of the Axis". Sir Winston Churchill, on the sinking of HMS Valiant and HMS Queen Elizabeth by Italian Combat Divers

12-02-05, 10:21 PM	#13
chris911 Chief Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 312 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Those are really nice . Maybe i will do another italian DD with the two funnel design so we can use them on this one too.Since everyone wants italian Ships atm that would be a nice add on.

12-03-05, 05:56 AM	#15
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	^Bombardiere - I count three tones in the picture: a white, a grey, and a dark. My guess for the colors are: Light area - Bianco Sporco Opaco (foul flat white) Grey area - Grigio Chiaro (light grey) Dark area - Grigio Scuro (dark grey) Does that seem correct? Or are there 4 tones instead of 3? In any case, this is what the WIP looks like: ^Velite (in 1944 late war colors) - two tone camo, dark grey on the bottom and light grey on the top. I'm just placing some pictures here so that I can find them in one neat place... ^Alpino ^Aviere ^Mitragliere ^Velite __________________ It takes two to tango