Cloning Library

[AG124]

Great site - anyone who has a look at some of these ships (or views any good WW2 book on the Battle of the Atlantic) can see that several of the ships included iin the stock roster aren't that accurate). I actually like the T2 tanker - it looks like a general tanker to me, although the T3 looks too modern.

BTW - It's probably irrelevant, but after looking at pictures of the Nereus and Proteus today, it appearsthat they only had one funnel, not two. I was sure I had seen a picture of the Cyclops with twin funnels though, maybe the others were rebuilt after WWI?

[iambecomelife]

The Cyclops definitely had two funnels. I don't have a link handy but I've seen pics of her from two angles clearly showing them. I know that several warships had refits done to reduce the number of funnels, so maybe that happened with those two civilian ships.

BTW, I actually feel that the t-2 from Silent Hunter II looks better than the current one. The model for the current one DOES simulate generic tankers well, but it just seems to be rushed/unfinished. Plus, it repeats textures badly, even for a merchant model; if you've downloaded my Merchant Variety Pack (link below) you'll notice that none of the skins for the T-2 have funnel logos because of this issue.

[AG124]

You're right, here's a picture.



I can't find pictures of the Nereus and Proteus online, but they actually look a lot different anyway - Their bridges were thicker and taller, they seemed to have more booms/cranes, and of course, they had only one funnel (which seems to have been offset to starboard). Maybe I'll scan in and post their pictures sometime, but that's probably against someone's copyright.

As for the rest of the ships in SH3, someone once said that there were very few realistic ones and that better ones were needed. This is what I think of the merchants in the game:

Coastal and Small Merchants: Both of these appear to be typical 1920's or 1930's freighters.

C2 and C3 Freighter: Superstructures too modern in appearance, especially the C2. I have never seen a picture of an actual C3, but a real C2 didn't seem to have such a bulky superstructure anyway.

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ty...class=C-2+type

Liberty and Victory freighters: Liberty freighters are important to the game and are accurate looking. According to pictures which I've seen, though, Victory freighters had smaller superstructures. I still like them though.

Large Cargo: Too large, and with too large a funnel and bridge, but still interesting.

Small Tanker: Nothing wrong with this one, IMO.

T2 Tanker: A pretty good looking ship - I did notice that you didn't give any of them company names on the funnel though - too bad that the developers rushed a few things.

T3 Tanker: The brdge looks 1950s or 1960s to me.

Troop Transport: I personally do not like this model - The funnel looks squared and most troopships actually seemed to have been converted passenger liners with larger superstructures. I guess there were some like this though, although most that I have seen with an even remotely similar design had two funnels. Maybe someone can mod some new troopships?

"Passenger Liner": Again, looks like it was built in the couple of decades after the war - and why label it a passenger vessel instead of Heavy Troopship or something like that? I doubt that many British passenger vessels were being sent on leisure cruises to the Carribean with merry passengers in 1943...Some people on this forum refuse to sink these for understandible humanitarian reasons, but I have come with a solution - rename it a troop transport and consider it as such. Of course, there were some evacuating children from the UK to Canada, but only early in the war - by late 1941 you would have no worry.

Transport (Serg's) - One of the best ships in the game - looks exactly like a pre-WW2 passenger liner converted for troops.

Considering some of these points, I think we need a few new ships. There are many on that site you recommended which would make good reference models. These are some of the best IMO:

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1250.html

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2356.html

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2616.htm

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1188.htm

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1141.html

I also recommend the site as a good place to research WW2 merchants to anyone reading this.

I haven't had any luck making anything so far, but maybe if a cloning library was established, either myself or others could be at least one step closer.

BTW - I never got the skins you made for Serg's ships - do you have a link?

[stljeffbb1]

Oh man....great pic,,,,,but I'm guessing that one would be hard to make! :hmm:

-Jeff

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by AG124

You're right, here's a picture.



I can't find pictures of the Nereus and Proteus online, but they actually look a lot different anyway - Their bridges were thicker and taller, they seemed to have more booms/cranes, and of course, they had only one funnel (which seems to have been offset to starboard). Maybe I'll scan in and post their pictures sometime, but that's probably against someone's copyright.

As for the rest of the ships in SH3, someone once said that there were very few realistic ones and that better ones were needed. This is what I think of the merchants in the game:

Coastal and Small Merchants: Both of these appear to be typical 1920's or 1930's freighters.

C2 and C3 Freighter: Superstructures too modern in appearance, especially the C2. I have never seen a picture of an actual C3, but a real C2 didn't seem to have such a bulky superstructure anyway.

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/ty...class=C-2+type

Liberty and Victory freighters: Liberty freighters are important to the game and are accurate looking. According to pictures which I've seen, though, Victory freighters had smaller superstructures. I still like them though.

Large Cargo: Too large, and with too large a funnel and bridge, but still interesting.

Small Tanker: Nothing wrong with this one, IMO.

T2 Tanker: A pretty good looking ship - I did notice that you didn't give any of them company names on the funnel though - too bad that the developers rushed a few things.

T3 Tanker: The brdge looks 1950s or 1960s to me.

Troop Transport: I personally do not like this model - The funnel looks squared and most troopships actually seemed to have been converted passenger liners with larger superstructures. I guess there were some like this though, although most that I have seen with an even remotely similar design had two funnels. Maybe someone can mod some new troopships?

"Passenger Liner": Again, looks like it was built in the couple of decades after the war - and why label it a passenger vessel instead of Heavy Troopship or something like that? I doubt that many British passenger vessels were being sent on leisure cruises to the Carribean with merry passengers in 1943...Some people on this forum refuse to sink these for understandible humanitarian reasons, but I have come with a solution - rename it a troop transport and consider it as such. Of course, there were some evacuating children from the UK to Canada, but only early in the war - by late 1941 you would have no worry.

Transport (Serg's) - One of the best ships in the game - looks exactly like a pre-WW2 passenger liner converted for troops.

Considering some of these points, I think we need a few new ships. There are many on that site you recommended which would make good reference models. These are some of the best IMO:

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1250.html

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2356.html

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/2616.htm

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1188.htm

http://uboat.net/allies/merchants/1141.html

I also recommend the site as a good place to research WW2 merchants to anyone reading this.

I haven't had any luck making anything so far, but maybe if a cloning library was established, either myself or others could be at least one step closer.

BTW - I never got the skins you made for Serg's ships - do you have a link?

The link below my mascot has the latest version of the MVP, including the new merchants. If you want the expansion pack alone, here it is:

http://rapidshare.de/files/3816933/M..._AddOn.7z.html

There are only civilian skins for the two ships included. Another expansion will have the camo skins.

[iambecomelife]

About the whole passenger liner controversy, I don't have that much of a problem with sinking them as long as they're enemy and not neutral - primarily since it wouldn't have been "in character" for a Uboat skipper to provoke the US (and his superiors) like that. Sinking enemy liners just doesn't seem to have been controversial. I read a book recently about survivors of the "Empress of Britain", and while they were sad to lose their ship few of them seemed to regard the attack as a war crime.

You've probably seen that pic of the MVP hospital ship. I almost didn't include it but then decided to let it stay and trust the MVP's users to swap out the skin by 1941 using the all-camo MVP Mid-Late War Edition. That way you won't get an armed Red Cross vessel.

[stljeffbb1]

Hi everyone....check out the cloning thread...I was able to clone a JU 87 using the instructions.....I suppose it is only fitting that this be the first object in the cloning library.....I'll have to sign up to get some free web hosting!



-Jeff

[iambecomelife]

Originally Posted by stljeffbb1

Hi everyone....check out the cloning thread...I was able to clone a JU 87 using the instructions.....I suppose it is only fitting that this be the first object in the cloning library.....I'll have to sign up to get some free web hosting!



-Jeff

That's great news. If only we could select all ID's with a dedicated cloning program and automatically replace them with randomly-generated substitutes. That would make it easy for modders to create lots of new ships or planes that would have virtually no chance of conflicting with one another.

[stljeffbb1]

Hi iambecomelife....

If only we could select all ID's with a dedicated cloning program and automatically replace them with randomly-generated substitutes. That would make it easy for modders to create lots of new ships or planes that would have virtually no chance of conflicting with one another.

That is an AWESOME idea!

I wish I knew more about Visual Basic....I would write a program myself....

I am changing the first two and last two bytes of each string, so the chances of duplication are I think 1 in 10000....not too likely...

-Jeff

[stljeffbb1]

Just added clone of B24 Liberator to cloning library.....I MIGHT have figured out where all of the string ID's are located, at the bottom of the .dat file....if I am right, it should make finding the ID's and cloning a whole lot easier!



-Jeff