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SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997
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SUBSIM: The Web's #1 resource for all submarine & naval simulations since 1997 |
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08-13-05, 09:04 AM
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#1 |
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Commander
 Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 445
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come on now c0sm1c... how hard is it to prove that you made a piece of art...
take for instance, that picture i just posted of SSN23-Jimmy Carter, in another thread... http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=41613 do you seriously think i'd have any problems proving that i was the original creator of that pic... and that you were not... in a court of law, the only proper protection i would need would be proof that i created a work in order to injunct you from further use, and to pursue you for relief of incidental damages... --Mike |
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08-13-05, 11:58 AM
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#2 | |
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Sailor man
 Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 46
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Quote:
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Militant sea dog 
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08-13-05, 06:44 PM
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 445
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you want proof... what about the sub in the screenshot for instance...
it had to come from somewhere in order to be in that photo... the judge is gonna ask you... 'do you you happen to have a sub that looks just like the one in the picture anywhere around your pc... anywhere...' and you're gonna stand there with a blank expression on your face... you'll shift your feet a lil bit... reach in your pockets... hoping that a sub will magically appear in one of em... ... but it won't. then, i'll show em the development work i did to make the sub... the picture of the final sub on my hard disk... the one with a date stamp on it... and then the judge will look your way... shake his head... and find you guilty of theft of intellectual property... for starters... and you will finally realize what i am trying to explain to you... --Mike |
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08-14-05, 02:35 AM
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Sailor man
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 46
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Oooh I dont want proof specifically -- I 'm just discussing this.
Proof points, before a case is filed, have to be very strong and with supportable evidences given... Firstly you need to prove ownership -- with what you have there is all circumstantial with no "proper protections" validating claims. Secondly that probably wouldnt get filed properly and end up in some minor "Arbitration court" as it would be just one persons word against another. In order to properly validate a claim anyone wishing to copyright their work, giving it the "proper protections", would seek good practitioners in that field of work - Not disclose it before filing, otherwise you place it in the public domain. Those chosen to practition your "Prior art" would be required to sign non-disclosure agreements first - making a perfect audit trail of events, independent of yourself, validating your claim to ownership. If your work has strong independent evidences those are proof points adding strength to claim of ownership. Just saying you own it isnt enough --- date and time stamps using IT systems can be maliciously altered - no Attourney worth his "Silk" would base a case on that. The world of IPR protection is complex. It's the same if I was to invent something and I told you about it prior to filing a patent -- YOU could claim ownership of my idea. Reason??? -- I placed it into the public domain before putting the "proper protections" in place.  hot yippidee dawg.
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Militant sea dog
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08-14-05, 04:47 AM
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Stowaway
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Just to throw in my tuppence worth.
I don't know if this is the case with subsim.com but i remember reading that some internet forums claim sopyright for what we write on them. I'm at work so i can't spend the time looking at the mo. Heck, i shouldn't be using t'internet at all. |
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08-14-05, 06:35 AM
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#6 |
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 445
Downloads: 0
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telling someone about it... just like posting a picture... does not constitute placing something into the public domain...
someone already alluded to this above... that's where you are making your first mistake... your second mistake has to do with your assertion that there needs to be some formal 'protection' put inplace before i could post a picture... or for that matter, play a song i wrote, or display a pinting i painted... by the very act of creating it it becomes your work of art... now of course i could claim that i did it... i could claim that i wrote DOOM3... but in a court of law, i'd loose... because the original developers can show that this is their original work... even if they didn't have any copyrights posted... do yo see any copyrights on any of Van Goghs paintings... --Mike |
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08-14-05, 07:20 AM
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Grey Wolf
 Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 997
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In regard specifically to forum posting....
I just checked subsims user registration verbage, and they don't have it; but some websites state when you sign up, that anything you post becomes the property of that website/domain owner. Can anyone shed some light on the actual legality of that? I'm interested because this issue just came up at another site, where business ideas were casually posted among forum members, and now those ideas are being taken and reprinted by the website owner in a different format/location, etc. , somewhat against the will of the original post-ers. Note the last sentence.... "By pressing the "Agree" button, you agree that you, the user, are 13 years of age or over. You are fully responsible for any information or file supplied by this user. You also agree that you will not post any copyrighted material that is not owned by yourself or the owners of these forums. In your use of these forums, you agree that you will not post any information which is vulgar, harassing, hateful, threatening, invading of others privacy, sexually oriented, or violates any laws. You also agree that all post will become the property of blahblah.com"
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08-14-05, 07:56 AM
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Eternal Patrol
 Join Date: May 2004
Location: Aeoteroa
Posts: 7,382
Downloads: 223
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Where do you sailors get these pictures from? WOW! MONOLITH that pic is so cool. Did you create it yourself! what software did you use. Im not coping anymore guys, im in the middle of creating my own.
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08-14-05, 08:37 AM
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Sailor man
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 46
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Quote:
I'm not making any mistakes here ..... hahaha Just you saying you made it - isnt a case. you are missing the fundamental point all the time. By placing proper protections behind it provides you with cover should some else claim they made it or use your "prior art" for their own gains. Good audit trail etc. If you dont put appropriate measures behind your work, to protect it, before sticking it in the public domain - you will most likely loose it. If anyone were to fight a case on that very weak basis - they would be wasting their money. On Doom 3 analogy you said it yourself but, again, missed the very point I have always made throughout this thread,... ( please read all again --- it has been carefully worded, throughout) ID, through their IPR attourneys, would have the proper protections in place prior to anyone knowing about it. Forums can claim license to the posts and threads as their own -- by placing the correct instruments within the terms and conditions(T's & C's). When you agree to those terms at registration you enter into a contract governing your use of the forums. The assertion I have made all the way along, is that with no formal protection, anything posted on the web is very very vulnerable to misuse, copying etc. By applying proper protections you can go some way to secure it.
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Militant sea dog
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08-14-05, 11:39 AM
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 445
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Quote:
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they said it i'm only repeating it for your edification... but i think that i'm wasting my time with you... you seem to want to just engage in babbling, just for the sake of babbling... i would say arguement, but you don't have any valid arguement... because you obviously don't know what you are talking about... someone tried to tell you this above... Quote:
maybe it's because in the world that you live in, you know it all... and anything that contradicts the constucts of the bubble that you surround yourself with, immediately sounds your denial alarm... and triggers off a spasmodic reaction in which your mind and your ears and your eyes shut tight... and your fingers start typing all sorts of nonsense... but in the world that everyone else lives in, things are different... and things are real... hey... try and open your ears for a second and hear this... i really don't care what you want to believe... it's not my job to convince you that something that you obviously need to believe in is dead wrong... you wanna go ahead deluding yourself about this stuff, go right ahead... stay stupid if you want to... it's a free world, and you have every right to embrace ignorance and stupidity... and i support your right to do just that... you're just gonna have to find someone else and waste their time doin it... or talk to the hand... cause i aint wastin' no more of my time with ya... --Mike |
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08-14-05, 11:45 AM
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#11 | |
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Grey Wolf
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 997
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Quote:
http://www.subart.net/u-boat%20&%20leigh%20light.htm
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08-14-05, 01:44 PM
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#12 |
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Sailor man
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 46
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Mike 'Red Ocktober' Hense
You just turned a fairly calm discussion about IPR protection, into attacking me personally. Some moderator you are. I am not rising to the comments aimed at me personally. If you're just going to make this a personal attack, forget it. All i can say is you have no idea what your talking about -- my career is related to IPR protection - That stuff you posted up I didnt disagree with -- only the point about strength of protection -- there are no guarantees -- it isnt as black and white as those statements make out. I work with IPR attourneys daily in the real and hard world of protecting value - therefore coming from a point of experience and knowledge -- you're getting steamed for no reason.
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Militant sea dog
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08-14-05, 02:16 PM
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#13 |
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 445
Downloads: 0
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typical... when your irrational disregard for the facts are pointed out to you, in plain language, as exactly what they are... you immediately start whining about personal attacks...
no one is attacking you personally... you are the one who showed that logic and reason are beyond you... i merely made it apparent... and still, you continue to tell me i have no idea what i'm talking about... for the fifth or sixth time... it is not me who is saying this... these are references to laws put forth by governments under which you and i live i went as far to refer you to a government information site... i quoted direct statements from there for you... and you still continue to say i don't know what i'm talking about... for the umpteenth time... IT'S NOT ME!!! i'm just referring to you what the law says... it's the government talking and after all this, you still wonder why i assert that you can't understand simple, doo dahhh... read my lips i didn't say these things... the people who make and adjudicate the laws of the land said em now, do what you want... snatch a picture from the subsim web site, and say that you made it... claim that it is yours... see what happens... ok, wait... here's a simple, more familiar set of circumstances that just occured just recently... even you should know about this... the SeeWolfes AddOn Pack... ask yourself... were many of the intellectual works copyrighted... ask yourself... are they protected intellectual works, who's rightful authors can seek legal relief against Xone for theft and unlawfull exploitation... is any of this getting through to you... any at all... you work with attorneys... doing what, bringing them coffee... you sure can't be discussing copyright law or intellectual property rights under the law, if you keep coming up with the nonesense that you have so far... in spite of someone trying to point you in the right direction, you insist on talking looney tunes... i was publishing software back in 1985... probably before you were born... i know just a bit about intellectual property rights... you obviously don't... as far as the real world goes... i think i've been around it a lil longer than you have... i'll bet you real world money i know it a lil better than you do... --Mike |
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08-14-05, 03:02 PM
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#14 | |
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Sailor man
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 46
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Quote:
We were just having a discussion on these boards about best practices toward IPR protection.
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Militant sea dog
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08-14-05, 03:09 PM
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#15 |
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Commander
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 445
Downloads: 0
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hey look... can ya find someone else to follow around and aggravate...
this is counterproductive to the forum... and it's certainly unfair to the guy who started this thread... i'm sure he didn't start it to watch us go back and forth... and i am in the middle of some work that i need to get finished... so i really don't have time for your juvenile antics... what can i do for you to go away... you want me to say that you are the Johnny Cochran of Intellectual Property law... well, then consider it said... noone can hold a candle next to you as far as your knowledge of intellectual property rights, god, and the entire universe... are ya happy now... now go bother someone else... --Mike |
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