Sampans, Junks and Fishing Boats

Zero Niner · 12-10-21, 02:20 AM

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

kapuhy · 12-10-21, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

You might find this interesting - from here::

https://ww2days-com.translate.goog/n...x_tr_pto=op,sc

Quote:

In mid-March 1942 the USS Pollack made the first submarine attack on a war patrol using its three-inch deck gun and a .50-caliber machine gun. The objects of the surface attack were two Japanese sampans, presumably civilian craft and unarmed. During 1942 U.S. submarines reported 34 attacks on sampans, trawlers, and a schooner. The number of attacks increased to 80 in 1943, the year that U.S. Seventh Fleet Bulletin No. 15, issued on this date, approved submarine deck gun attacks against “Chinese” junks, schooners, and other small vessels. Their sinking over the long haul would produce impressive results, the bulletin prophesized. With mounting shipping losses to their large cargo ships (less than 1 million tons lost at the end of 1942, 1.77 million tons at the end of 1943, and 2.5 million tons through 1944), the Japanese increasingly resorted to smaller craft to transport personnel; fuel, food, raw, and finished materials; and military equipment between their Home Islands and their southern resource areas and island garrisons. Small craft were also engaged in transporting goods along the coasts of their Home Islands due to the country’s underdeveloped railway system and rudimentary roads. From 1944 to 1945, with fewer and fewer large Japanese ships in the region, the number of deck gun attacks by U.S., British, and Dutch submarines on smaller craft doubled, from 508 to 1,044, with more than half being American kills. By war’s end most large Japanese fishing vessels, junks, schooners, trawlers, and coasters in Southeast Asia had been destroyed in the context of “total war” against the Japanese empire. Throughout the Pacific war the issue of whether to attack and sink defenseless or lightly armed small craft using deck guns remained a persistent moral and tactical dilemma for Allied skippers and seamen—because doing so meant killing crews (often made up of multiple Asian nationalities and often with their families) close up and face-to-face.

Mad Mardigan · 12-10-21, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

Depending on the size of the small craft (tonnage wise) would depend on how I'd approach it, targeting it or them, for destruction... seem to recall some skippers (not all did..) would sink them, as they came across them.

Believe this was owing to, if left to their own devices... they'd have likely reported their presence...

With Bubbleheads TMOverhauled v2.5, can turn the anti air guns loose on them... with FotRS-U v1.46... think using the same gun (done manually) does do damages... with having the crew man the deck gun... making fairly quick work of them, post haste... then beating a hasty retreat from the area.

That's how I roll with running across them... on occasion, if I feel that the distance is far enough, I'll sometimes dive... & burn rubber departing the area, as well... just depends on how I see the situation, at the time.

Hope this info helps provide a useful enough base if info, for you to decide how you wish to deal with them, after this... as it goes... it's all up to you, on how you decide to deal (or don't deal) with them... your choice.

M. M.

LUKNER · 12-10-21, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

In 1945, small vessels were destroyed indiscriminately in the waters of Japan. I don't know how legible boat commanders in other places were.

1Patriotofmany · 12-10-21, 02:15 PM

I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

Mad Mardigan · 12-10-21, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Patriotofmany

I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

Seem to recall that, as well...

think, FotRS_U has a few that do... TMOverhauled v2.5BH, may... I think... after that... My... memory is starting to get a bit... fuzzy, about the edges.

M. M.

Bubblehead1980 · 12-10-21, 05:43 PM

In home waters and off Korea I sink them, because in TMO all fishing boats sampans etc Japanese, fishing boats feed the war effort in home islands, same reason were often attacked in real life. Many are armed and will open fire, plus they will use radio to report your position which will bring aircraft and ASW patrol vessels.

Off China, Indochina, occupied Philippines etc the boats are usually not Japanese, to make it so they are not attacked, I made them neutral, so unless they act strange such as trying to avoid my sub, or if via visual inspection noticed they are armed, I will let them go and not attack. No sense in sinking some poor chinese fisherman's boat.

In upcoming version of TMO Update, much as in real life, they become a focus of mission orders in later war, since a lack of large merchants left japanese resorting to using these vessels to run cargo in the home islands as well as pickets (which many did in the entire war) , and included extra ammo for deck and AA guns (since AA guns will now fire at surface targets) for these "picket sweeps"

I did not add flags because want the player to have to really ponder if they want to attack.

1Patriotofmany · 12-11-21, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mardigan

Seem to recall that, as well...

think, FotRS_U has a few that do... TMOverhauled v2.5BH, may... I think... after that... My... memory is starting to get a bit... fuzzy, about the edges.

M. M.

HEHE exactly......

In any case my policy is I don't get too close and I dispatch them.

gandyrail · 01-03-22, 03:47 AM

They shoot at me and I can take damage. Sucks to start leaking fuel or get battery damage.
I used to put a shell or two in them an then run them over. New mods I get damaged doing that.
Not sure I should get damaged by small arms fire but there you go. The game does not handle the sub punching a hole in a wood sampan correctly in my opinion.

KaleunMarco · 12-10-21, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1Patriotofmany

I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

crab boats have sonar and weapons.
either sink 'em or avoid 'em.

fitzcarraldo · 12-10-21, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Niner

Civilians or legitimate targets?
In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade.
In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

My politic is simple: Sink'em'all!

Regards.

Fitzcarraldo

12-10-21, 02:20 AM	#1
Zero Niner Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,033 Downloads: 69 Uploads: 0	Sampans, Junks and Fishing Boats Civilians or legitimate targets? In GFO I left them alone as there didn't seem to be any consequences, so I imagined they were fishermen just plying their trade. In FORTSU I notice that they fly the Japanese flag, and while I have yet to confirm it, it appears that an enemy aircraft will appear quite soon after one of them spots me.

01-03-22, 03:47 AM	#9
gandyrail Watch Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 24 Downloads: 121 Uploads: 0	Fishing boats and sampans They shoot at me and I can take damage. Sucks to start leaking fuel or get battery damage. I used to put a shell or two in them an then run them over. New mods I get damaged doing that. Not sure I should get damaged by small arms fire but there you go. The game does not handle the sub punching a hole in a wood sampan correctly in my opinion. __________________ Gandyrail the Diving Pelican Retired Engineering Manager of railroad construction/ maintenance/ design

12-10-21, 02:15 PM	#5
1Patriotofmany Samurai Navy Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 574 Downloads: 111 Uploads: 0	I'm not sure if it's fotrs or another mod, but some of them are armed and fire on you IIRC.

12-10-21, 05:43 PM	#7
Bubblehead1980 Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Florida USA Posts: 7,097 Downloads: 605 Uploads: 44	In home waters and off Korea I sink them, because in TMO all fishing boats sampans etc Japanese, fishing boats feed the war effort in home islands, same reason were often attacked in real life. Many are armed and will open fire, plus they will use radio to report your position which will bring aircraft and ASW patrol vessels. Off China, Indochina, occupied Philippines etc the boats are usually not Japanese, to make it so they are not attacked, I made them neutral, so unless they act strange such as trying to avoid my sub, or if via visual inspection noticed they are armed, I will let them go and not attack. No sense in sinking some poor chinese fisherman's boat. In upcoming version of TMO Update, much as in real life, they become a focus of mission orders in later war, since a lack of large merchants left japanese resorting to using these vessels to run cargo in the home islands as well as pickets (which many did in the entire war) , and included extra ammo for deck and AA guns (since AA guns will now fire at surface targets) for these "picket sweeps" I did not add flags because want the player to have to really ponder if they want to attack.