Carrier Ops - Page 2

Wolfcat · 09-21-18, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

The type of Aegis behavior one might expect really just isn't programmed into the game. Unfortunately, it's truly just beyond the scope of the game. All the controllable platforms in Dangerous Waters are primarily ASW assets. You'll probably have better luck simulating this kind of thing with CMANO or Fleet Command or Harpoon, something with a much larger scope of naval warfare.

I agree that full Aegis behavior is beyond this game. But at least get some basic things right. For instance, in current v1.45, SM-2's Max speed is mach 2.5 according to the in-game reference. Mach 2.5? Are you kidding me? A su-27's top speed is Mach 2.35. It's practically useless.

What makes the matter worse is that the actual in-battle speed is even lower. The missile could only fly at 950 kts, which is mach 1.42 and even slower than some of the cruise missiles.

But if you look at some of the Russian SAM's, most of them are in mach3 or even Mach4-5 range.

That's a real difference.

p7p8 · 09-21-18, 09:52 AM

For me you should bind some things between scenarios.
For example: if one warship from CVN group will be destroyed should not appear in next mission. Its possible but may complicate triggers in campaign scenarios

ET2SN · 09-22-18, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfcat

I agree that full Aegis behavior is beyond this game. But at least get some basic things right. For instance, in current v1.45, SM-2's Max speed is mach 2.5 according to the in-game reference. Mach 2.5? Are you kidding me? A su-27's top speed is Mach 2.35. It's practically useless.

What makes the matter worse is that the actual in-battle speed is even lower. The missile could only fly at 950 kts, which is mach 1.42 and even slower than some of the cruise missiles.

But if you look at some of the Russian SAM's, most of them are in mach3 or even Mach4-5 range.

That's a real difference.

Don't get too hung up on "book values". They don't tell the whole story.

If a missile is turning or changing attitude its going to lose speed.

DW started out as a submarine game, the frigates and P3's kinda got bolted onto it. In that manner, there are a lot of things it gets right but there are also some things which needed to get bent a bit.

BTW, before anyone gets upset, let me explain what I mean about "book numbers" with an example- the SR-71.

The "book numbers" claim the SR-71 had a top speed of Mach 3+. Some books will claim a top speed of Mach 3.2 or Mach 3.3 with a dash speed of Mach 3.5. Or, the books will say the SR-71 had a top speed of 1,500 MPH.

Go on Youtube and find some SR-71 pilot interviews. All of them will say the SR-71 had a top speed of 450 knots (indicated air speed).

No one is lying. All of the numbers are accurate. How is it possible?

p7p8 · 09-24-18, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET2SN

Don't get too hung up on "book values". They don't tell the whole story.

If a missile is turning or changing attitude its going to lose speed.

DW started out as a submarine game, the frigates and P3's kinda got bolted onto it. In that manner, there are a lot of things it gets right but there are also some things which needed to get bent a bit.

Totally agree with you

tAKticool47 · 09-24-18, 10:22 AM

I wanted to chime in because I have done an extensive amount of "Carrier Ops" playing with US and NATO/Allied-based carriers. I have learned a few things i figured I could share. ... however I admit I am not really good at all at triggers or scripts so I am fairly limited in my playing-programming but that's fine with me, it's still fun.

One thing is, p7p8 is damn right about the windspeed and crashes. Naturally when you are using a carrier, particularly a US carrier, you build a battle group right? And attach the other units etc? Lets say you set it at 30 knots.... whenever it wants to launch a plane, it turns into the wind, and slows down to 3 knots. This causes all sorts of formation problems and crashes. I mean I have lost a ton of escorts to self-crashes because of it. I think p7p8 had a great solution in naming a different ship as the leader.

Also... if you put a plane on deck at "Ready 5" , I have noticed, it will NEVER LAUNCH. For some reason, at least with me, all the Ready 5 planes just sit there. The solution I have come up with is to put all types at Ready 15 (and 30) and let it spin up planes on it's own. It will regularly spin up F-14s and F-18s, S-3s and sometimes a Prowler. However, I have noticed it has never once spun up/launched an E-2 or ES-3 ... and it has never launched a helo. Even if you put them on deck, never does it. The solution for me is to set an E-2 and an ES-3 to have a launch time of 1 minute. Then I usually let the computer handle flight ops. HOWEVER, there is a real fault here- It will always pick default weapons loadouts. It always puts the F-14 & F-18 at AAW loadouts, but if you make them in-flight aircraft, you can pick ASuW or Strike, and they become very formidable platforms (the F-14 with a pair of Mk84 JDAMs and the F-18 with All kinds of stuff.). The downside is, it can take you an hour to set up In-Flight CAPs and Flight-Launch-Timed planes by itself.

The other thing is, there are some pretty awesome planes in the USAF that obviously don't use the carrier. The F-16s are great and have a great ability in the game -- and the F-15E is just incredible. It's either an absolutely stacked AAW platform or a ridiculous bomb truck capable of ~1500kts as a ASuW platform. The F-111 is pretty awesome as well, will shoot it's guns after it launches everything for an hour. The F-117 is kind of useless, it carries 2 JSoW and goes 500 kts and is not "stealth" in the game. And as I have said before, the F-22 is useless. Dies immediately every game, every situation. I however like to set up the EW version of the C-130 and the EP-3 ELINT planes on perimeter routes sniffing the border of battles and if you have an Ohio-class SSGN in the water, you can add the Sub COMMO C-130 version to give it firing data. It's pretty awesome when it decides to lay it's 150 TASM eggs.

I have also built Cold War/Red Storm Rising-style battle groups with Kitty Hawk &/ Forrestal-class CVs, and period escorts like Virginia-class CGNs, an original Ticonderoga, sometimes a Spruance DDG, usually a FF-1052-class & FFG-7 class frigate (i'll usually command the FFG-7) and either another CG/CGN or DD/DDG ... sometimes even a BB (because those 16" guns will fire when in range, it's awesome.) it can be a lot of fun to play these scenarios, with a Sturgeon or LA FLT I/II etc. but if you make the opposition too good, the Soviet stuff will merck you, so you have to plan accordingly. Can't use the Kuznetsov, not even close to fair, but Moskva and Kiev can work.

p7p8 · 09-24-18, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tAKticool47

I think p7p8 had a great solution in naming a different ship as the leader.

+"wind region" with wind speed 0

tAKticool47 · 09-28-18, 10:09 AM

So I saw something half-extraordinary yesterday and felt like sharing --- involving flight ops.

I made a small test mission to mess around with, based on what the US calls "Amphibious Ready Groups" ... a Wasp-class LHD, a Harpers Ferry-class LSD, and because there are no American LPDs in the game, I used a UK LPD (is it Fearless-class maybe?) ... and because I was putting a handful of Russian surface and subsurface opponents, I added an Arleigh Burke FLT-I and a FFG-7 to play with to the ARG. So LHD, LPD, LSD, DDG, FFG.

Apparently the British LPD has some choppers. During the course of the "war", the British LPD AI decided to launch 2 of their helos. They flew around a little, and shortly after, the Russian FFGs & CG missiled it and it died.

THEN , THE TWO UK HELOS GO INTO A HOLDING PATTERN AROUND THE HARPERS FERRY LSD. One of them starts circling while the other one comes in for a landing, and lands perfectly. And I am amazing that it not only TRIED to land, but actually lands!

And then it blows up.

And right on cue, after it miraculously blows up, the second UK Helo comes in for a landing, lands perfectly again.

And then it blows up also.

I had never seen something like that before. And it would have been amazing had they not actually blown up upon landing.

Just thought I'd share.

p7p8 · 09-28-18, 11:06 AM

Check Fearless page 3/4 - there is hangar loadout. change default (4x Seakings) to loadout 1 (none)

All AI ships with any helos/aircrafts onboard makes troubles in scenarios. Better remove all and make is via scripts/triggers

tAKticool47 · 09-28-18, 11:22 AM

p7p8 I'm not mad, I wasn't complaining, I thought it was awesome actually.

I like using the aircraft, it's a nice feature of the game for me.

But I just thought it was cool to see in a way.

FPSchazly · 09-28-18, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tAKticool47

THEN , THE TWO UK HELOS GO INTO A HOLDING PATTERN AROUND THE HARPERS FERRY LSD. One of them starts circling while the other one comes in for a landing, and lands perfectly. And I am amazing that it not only TRIED to land, but actually lands!

And then it blows up.

Thank you for making me laugh out loud at work

09-21-18, 09:52 AM	#17
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	For me you should bind some things between scenarios. For example: if one warship from CVN group will be destroyed should not appear in next mission. Its possible but may complicate triggers in campaign scenarios __________________

09-28-18, 11:06 AM	#23
p7p8 Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 742 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 6	Check Fearless page 3/4 - there is hangar loadout. change default (4x Seakings) to loadout 1 (none) All AI ships with any helos/aircrafts onboard makes troubles in scenarios. Better remove all and make is via scripts/triggers __________________

09-24-18, 10:22 AM	#20
tAKticool47 Bosun Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Nature Coast Posts: 62 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I wanted to chime in because I have done an extensive amount of "Carrier Ops" playing with US and NATO/Allied-based carriers. I have learned a few things i figured I could share. ... however I admit I am not really good at all at triggers or scripts so I am fairly limited in my playing-programming but that's fine with me, it's still fun. One thing is, p7p8 is damn right about the windspeed and crashes. Naturally when you are using a carrier, particularly a US carrier, you build a battle group right? And attach the other units etc? Lets say you set it at 30 knots.... whenever it wants to launch a plane, it turns into the wind, and slows down to 3 knots. This causes all sorts of formation problems and crashes. I mean I have lost a ton of escorts to self-crashes because of it. I think p7p8 had a great solution in naming a different ship as the leader. Also... if you put a plane on deck at "Ready 5" , I have noticed, it will NEVER LAUNCH. For some reason, at least with me, all the Ready 5 planes just sit there. The solution I have come up with is to put all types at Ready 15 (and 30) and let it spin up planes on it's own. It will regularly spin up F-14s and F-18s, S-3s and sometimes a Prowler. However, I have noticed it has never once spun up/launched an E-2 or ES-3 ... and it has never launched a helo. Even if you put them on deck, never does it. The solution for me is to set an E-2 and an ES-3 to have a launch time of 1 minute. Then I usually let the computer handle flight ops. HOWEVER, there is a real fault here- It will always pick default weapons loadouts. It always puts the F-14 & F-18 at AAW loadouts, but if you make them in-flight aircraft, you can pick ASuW or Strike, and they become very formidable platforms (the F-14 with a pair of Mk84 JDAMs and the F-18 with All kinds of stuff.). The downside is, it can take you an hour to set up In-Flight CAPs and Flight-Launch-Timed planes by itself. The other thing is, there are some pretty awesome planes in the USAF that obviously don't use the carrier. The F-16s are great and have a great ability in the game -- and the F-15E is just incredible. It's either an absolutely stacked AAW platform or a ridiculous bomb truck capable of ~1500kts as a ASuW platform. The F-111 is pretty awesome as well, will shoot it's guns after it launches everything for an hour. The F-117 is kind of useless, it carries 2 JSoW and goes 500 kts and is not "stealth" in the game. And as I have said before, the F-22 is useless. Dies immediately every game, every situation. I however like to set up the EW version of the C-130 and the EP-3 ELINT planes on perimeter routes sniffing the border of battles and if you have an Ohio-class SSGN in the water, you can add the Sub COMMO C-130 version to give it firing data. It's pretty awesome when it decides to lay it's 150 TASM eggs. I have also built Cold War/Red Storm Rising-style battle groups with Kitty Hawk &/ Forrestal-class CVs, and period escorts like Virginia-class CGNs, an original Ticonderoga, sometimes a Spruance DDG, usually a FF-1052-class & FFG-7 class frigate (i'll usually command the FFG-7) and either another CG/CGN or DD/DDG ... sometimes even a BB (because those 16" guns will fire when in range, it's awesome.) it can be a lot of fun to play these scenarios, with a Sturgeon or LA FLT I/II etc. but if you make the opposition too good, the Soviet stuff will merck you, so you have to plan accordingly. Can't use the Kuznetsov, not even close to fair, but Moskva and Kiev can work.

09-28-18, 10:09 AM	#22
tAKticool47 Bosun Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Nature Coast Posts: 62 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	So I saw something half-extraordinary yesterday and felt like sharing --- involving flight ops. I made a small test mission to mess around with, based on what the US calls "Amphibious Ready Groups" ... a Wasp-class LHD, a Harpers Ferry-class LSD, and because there are no American LPDs in the game, I used a UK LPD (is it Fearless-class maybe?) ... and because I was putting a handful of Russian surface and subsurface opponents, I added an Arleigh Burke FLT-I and a FFG-7 to play with to the ARG. So LHD, LPD, LSD, DDG, FFG. Apparently the British LPD has some choppers. During the course of the "war", the British LPD AI decided to launch 2 of their helos. They flew around a little, and shortly after, the Russian FFGs & CG missiled it and it died. THEN , THE TWO UK HELOS GO INTO A HOLDING PATTERN AROUND THE HARPERS FERRY LSD. One of them starts circling while the other one comes in for a landing, and lands perfectly. And I am amazing that it not only TRIED to land, but actually lands! And then it blows up. And right on cue, after it miraculously blows up, the second UK Helo comes in for a landing, lands perfectly again. And then it blows up also. I had never seen something like that before. And it would have been amazing had they not actually blown up upon landing. Just thought I'd share.

09-28-18, 11:22 AM	#24
tAKticool47 Bosun Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Nature Coast Posts: 62 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	p7p8 I'm not mad, I wasn't complaining, I thought it was awesome actually. I like using the aircraft, it's a nice feature of the game for me. But I just thought it was cool to see in a way.