Burka in Germany: Interior minister calls for curbs

[Gerald]

A Muslim woman wears a burkini on a beach in Marseille earlier this month.

I told a close friend I was planning to write about the several French seaside resorts that have banned the burkini, backed by the prime minister, Manuel Valls, and Germany’s proposed partial ban on wearing the burqa in public places. This comes with the gathering strength of mainstream feeling in both countries that they need to affirm their secular values and identity, not least to close down opportunities for the extreme right.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-shared-values


We jump over to the neighbor, in this topic.I will not be surprised that there may be a general ban in the EU or in other states.


Note: Sunday 21 August 2016

[Commander Wallace]

My thoughts have always been that if foreigners enter a country to work and live, they should adopt the customs of that host country. This would include at least making some effort to learn the language. This doesn't mean these foreigners should abandon their ethnic heritage and customs but rather practice their customs in private.

We have always had a saying here, " When in Rome, do as they do "

( added ) It's certainly not realistic, reasonable or fair to expect the host country to adopt or adapt to whatever customs they brought with them.



I know if I visited the U.K, I would make every effort to learn their language

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

My thoughts have always been that if foreigners enter a country to work and live, they should adopt the customs of that host country. This would include at least making some effort to learn the language. This doesn't mean these foreigners should abandon their ethnic heritage and customs but rather practice their customs in private.

We have always had a saying here, " When in Rome, do as they do "

I know if I visited the U.K, I would make every effort to learn their language

Reminds me of how the Chinese reportedly dealt with Mongolian invaders claiming Emperorship. They pretty much said "ok, fine, if that's what you want, go ahead but learn Chinese first and do as we do and we're fine. The current emperor might not like it but who is he to complain? We spent an absolute fortune teaching him Chinese and our customs".

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Von Due

Reminds me of how the Chinese reportedly dealt with Mongolian invaders claiming Emperorship. They pretty much said "ok, fine, if that's what you want, go ahead but learn Chinese first and do as we do and we're fine. The current emperor might not like it but who is he to complain? We spent an absolute fortune teaching him Chinese and our customs".

The Mongolians at least knew how to deal with something like IS. When they were done with the order of the Assassins, the problem was as dead as dead can be, and never popped up again. And they did not take compromise as an excuse. That was the secret of their success in getting rid of this pest.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

My thoughts have always been that if foreigners enter a country to work and live, they should adopt the customs of that host country. This would include at least making some effort to learn the language. This doesn't mean these foreigners should abandon their ethnic heritage and customs but rather practice their customs in private.

Indeed. The Chinese in the United States have done like this a lot, and still seem to do so. Seems to work well. However, the private life and keeping ones ethnic heritage alive there still must be in conformity with the laws. That you practice child marriages in your private life or whip your wife in private, is not to be tolerated just because it gets done in the private sphere.

Obeying the law is the minimum standard for the private part of your life only. In public, even more is demanded than just that: here you better do not just follow the laws, when you are a foreigner in a foreign land, but also try to not alienate the native population, but fit into the everyday habits and rules of behaviour. The freedom you have in your private life is to no longer behave by the habits of the land you live - as long as this easing your allow for yourself does not violate the laws. It may be habit in your place of origin to rape children or to have several wives - in this new place you live in,. it is against the law.

Interestingly, the majority of those Muslim migrants in Germany that are successful, that found enterprises, that are well-educated, take much more care fo their children living by the principles I just outlined than ,many Germany even care to demand. And most of these indeed successful Muslim migrants share my assessments and views on Muslim migration.

Amongst their Muslim migrant peer group however they are a minority, the majority of Muslim migrants refused to integrate over the past 60 years. And its like that in France, in England, in Sweden, in Holland...

So much for me being principlally "anti-Migrant" or "racist", that is nonsense. I am anti Islamic ideology, and I am anti rejecting-to integrate.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Indeed. The Chinese in the United States have done like this a lot, and still seem to do so. Seems to work well. However, the private life and keeping ones ethnic heritage alive there still must be in conformity with the laws. That you practice child marriages in your private life or whip your wife in private, is not to be tolerated just because it gets done in the private sphere.

I agree. Those customs practiced should be consistent with the established law of the host country.

[Skybird]

France’s liberal traditions won’t be helped by the burkini ban

Maybe, maybe not. But it is a relief to the eye not needing to see this alienating, foreign dress code that sticks out and tells everybody that the wearer of it has little intention to fit in or to integrate. If you want to live in a foreign place and want to get along with the natives, you better learn to live by their habits and ways and rules. Instead insisting on dress codes whose rules base on a medieval mindset and are explicitly standing out from the crowd, is not helpful, but illustrates what it really is about: to use the power to force the other into falling back, and to enforce one's own ways instead.The whole thing is about enforcing more and more Muslim ways and rules of living in a country that has never been Muslim except during those dark years when it in parts was occupied by military invaders.

If the tolerant tolerate the intolerant, than the intolerant will destroy the tolerant, and with them tolerance. Tolerance needs limits, else it destroys itself.

[Oberon]

You mustn't let someone else tell you what to wear, let us tell you what to wear.

[Schroeder]

While I'm for a Burka ban I don't see the problem with Burkinis as long as they leave the face bare. They actually are pretty much like the swimwear we used to have 150 years ago. A Burkini ban would actually also mean that diving suits are considered to be inappropriate.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Schroeder

While I'm for a Burka ban I don't see the problem with Burkinis as long as they leave the face bare. They actually are pretty much like the swimwear we used to have 150 years ago.

Not "we" of the present, but our forefathers. And they had their rules of clothing formed up all by themselves, not impose don them by foreigners. Thats a very important difference.

And yes, I think those swimsuits bakc then looked hilarious, seen with my modern eyes. If I would have lived back then, I maybe would see it different. And if I were raised as a Muslim, I would pray to Allah. But I am Sky of the present, central Europe, 21st century. We living are the rulers of this place and present time. Not Arabs. Not medieval mindsets. Not generations who are long since dead.