Its ok to wear Military Medals even if you didn't earn them.

eddie · 01-12-16, 06:05 PM

This is wrong to me, makes a mockery of those who served and really earned them. If you want to go around wearing the Medal of Honor, even though you didn't do anything to earn it, go ahead I guess.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...14525768403773

Schroeder · 01-12-16, 06:33 PM

That's so wrong. Then they can also allow to wear a full uniform with general's rank insignia even though one has never been in the armed forces. It's a farce and borders unauthorized assumption of authority.

Kaye T. Bai · 01-12-16, 06:36 PM

I found it funny (or sad) that all the fakers all try to be a big high-profile war hero. I'm still waiting for the day a guy pretends to be a reservist PFC from a water purification unit.

Platapus · 01-12-16, 06:59 PM

Perhaps there is a difference between wearing an object (medal/ribbon) and making a formal claim of being awarded the same.

I don't like this, but I can see where the court is coming from on this issue.

THEBERBSTER · 01-12-16, 07:03 PM

Its a total insult,fraudulent usage, and should be illegal to wear a military award that has not been earned.
Peter

GoldenRivet · 01-12-16, 07:34 PM

In my opinion. the only time it would be acceptable to wear any resemblance of a military uniform you never professionally "earned" would be if you were acting in a play/production/movie - or if you were re-enacting a battle - or if you were dressing a part for an air show or some other sort of period "production" for entertainment purposes

I used to know guys who would fly their war birds to air shows (like L-4 Cubs or T-6) and present the airplane in static displays or even perform demonstrations of the aircraft and these guys would wear the most authentic USAAF flight uniforms they could afford to represent the period and sort of go for the "full Monty" so to speak.

in all other facets, it is completely unacceptable. You dont dress in a military uniform and go to the bus station to hop a bus, or airport to catch a flight, or go sit somewhere to eat dinner or conduct daily errands dressed like that unless you are in the military and have a reason for wearing the uniform.

EDIT:

my assumption is that you still cannot wear the uniforms and medals etc for the purpose of receiving benefits otherwise reserved for actual military (meal discounts, vouchers, preferential seating etc)

Stealhead · 01-12-16, 08:34 PM

According to the UCMJ an active duty military member can not wear an award they did not actually receive. Nor can they wear rank that they in fact do no have.

Most places like restaurants don't verify that the person making the claim really is a veteran. Like Golden Corral they the free meal for a vet(not like I would ever eat there even for free) they dont verify anything.

Now car dealer will give discounts and in some states wont charge sales tax to an active duty member that person must show military ID and provide a letter from their commander office as confirmation.

I have mixed opinions about the people who generally imitate a military member (excluding Golden Rivets list) some of the people who do it are not all there in the mind towards this kind of person I hold no ill feelings. Now a mentally sound person who is a phony that ticks me off as dose a vet who makes false claims.

Platapus · 01-13-16, 05:31 PM

You can read the courts decision and the rational behind it at
cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2014/10/29/11-35796.pdf

The full court opinion (48 pages) can be accessed here

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto..../11-35796.pdf

If you go to www.ca9.uscourts.gov and search for Swicher there are other documents that explain the process.

The good news is that the other convictions against Swisher were not changed

Tchocky · 01-13-16, 06:53 PM

There's a fairly clear First Amendment case here, I think.

Wearing medals you didn't earn should be legal.

It doesn't mean we have to like it.

fred8615 · 01-13-16, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

There's a fairly clear First Amendment case here, I think.

Wearing medals you didn't earn should be legal.

It doesn't mean we have to like it.

Where exactly does it say in the First Amendment that you have a right to lie? And if you do have a right to lie, how in the world do you ever charge or convict someone of perjury??? Or lying to the police (a crime in many places)???

KrazyDimondRX · 01-14-16, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Where exactly does it say in the First Amendment that you have a right to lie?

Where does it say anyone wearing a medal they did not earn is lying. Look at Cybermat47's posts on this. People in his country and mine might wear medals to respect and honour veteran relatves. No lying involved. I don't know about aussie but if you get caught wearing an undeserved "Ebay" medal over here, boy! your going to regret it.
Two totally different scenarios.
KDRX

Stealhead · 01-14-16, 01:49 AM

In the US outside of the military law(UCMJ) which applies to military members it is not illegal to wear a military medal not actually earned. There is the Stolen Valor Act which makes it illegal to make false claims of military service for personal gain. For example if a person said they where a Navy Seal during a job application when they where not.

It illegal to impersonate a military officer as well.

Platapus · 01-14-16, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred8615

Where exactly does it say in the First Amendment that you have a right to lie? And if you do have a right to lie, how in the world do you ever charge or convict someone of perjury??? Or lying to the police (a crime in many places)???

Where does it say that lying, in itself, is a criminal offense?

Lying under oath is illegal
Lying for the intent of defrauding is illegal
Lying to law enforcement officials in the course of a legal investigation is illegal

But, Lying to impress people is not illegal, despite being morally reprehensible.

From the court records

Quote:

“We are aware of no authority holding that the government may, through a criminal law, prohibit speech simply because it is knowingly factually false.”

Quote:

we presumptively protect all speech against government interference, leaving it to the government to demonstrate, either through a well-crafted statute or case-specific application, the historical basis for a compelling need to remove some speech from protection . . . for some reason other than the mere fact that it is a lie.

Our commitment to freedom of speech is never better tested then when applied to something we strongly object to.

August · 01-14-16, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Platapus

But, Lying to impress people is not illegal, despite being morally reprehensible.

Impressing people is a form of personal gain isn't it?

01-12-16, 06:05 PM	#1
eddie Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,023 Downloads: 99 Uploads: 0	Its ok to wear Military Medals even if you didn't earn them. This is wrong to me, makes a mockery of those who served and really earned them. If you want to go around wearing the Medal of Honor, even though you didn't do anything to earn it, go ahead I guess. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...14525768403773 __________________ Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I'm kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me. Al Capone

01-12-16, 06:33 PM	#2
Schroeder Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Banana Republic of Germany Posts: 6,170 Downloads: 62 Uploads: 0	That's so wrong. Then they can also allow to wear a full uniform with general's rank insignia even though one has never been in the armed forces. It's a farce and borders unauthorized assumption of authority. __________________ Putting Germ back into Germany.

01-12-16, 06:59 PM	#4
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,369 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Perhaps there is a difference between wearing an object (medal/ribbon) and making a formal claim of being awarded the same. I don't like this, but I can see where the court is coming from on this issue. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-12-16, 07:03 PM	#5
THEBERBSTER Growing Old Disgracefully Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Hythe - Southampton Posts: 9,609 Downloads: 1133 Uploads: 0	Its a total insult,fraudulent usage, and should be illegal to wear a military award that has not been earned. Peter __________________ LSH3-2015 <> TUTORIALS <> ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW <> ALL IN ONE PLACE SH4 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS SH5 <> TUTORIALS <> HOW TO DO IT <> INFORMATION <> DOWNLOAD LINKS Always Here To Help A Fellow 'Subber' \| Need An Answer to A Question Just Send Me A PM

01-12-16, 07:34 PM	#6
GoldenRivet Subsim Aviator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 8,726 Downloads: 146 Uploads: 0	In my opinion. the only time it would be acceptable to wear any resemblance of a military uniform you never professionally "earned" would be if you were acting in a play/production/movie - or if you were re-enacting a battle - or if you were dressing a part for an air show or some other sort of period "production" for entertainment purposes I used to know guys who would fly their war birds to air shows (like L-4 Cubs or T-6) and present the airplane in static displays or even perform demonstrations of the aircraft and these guys would wear the most authentic USAAF flight uniforms they could afford to represent the period and sort of go for the "full Monty" so to speak. in all other facets, it is completely unacceptable. You dont dress in a military uniform and go to the bus station to hop a bus, or airport to catch a flight, or go sit somewhere to eat dinner or conduct daily errands dressed like that unless you are in the military and have a reason for wearing the uniform. EDIT: my assumption is that you still cannot wear the uniforms and medals etc for the purpose of receiving benefits otherwise reserved for actual military (meal discounts, vouchers, preferential seating etc) __________________

01-12-16, 06:36 PM	#3
Kaye T. Bai Samurai Navy Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Western Hemisphere, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster Posts: 585 Downloads: 22 Uploads: 0	I found it funny (or sad) that all the fakers all try to be a big high-profile war hero. I'm still waiting for the day a guy pretends to be a reservist PFC from a water purification unit.

01-12-16, 08:34 PM	#7
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	According to the UCMJ an active duty military member can not wear an award they did not actually receive. Nor can they wear rank that they in fact do no have. Most places like restaurants don't verify that the person making the claim really is a veteran. Like Golden Corral they the free meal for a vet(not like I would ever eat there even for free) they dont verify anything. Now car dealer will give discounts and in some states wont charge sales tax to an active duty member that person must show military ID and provide a letter from their commander office as confirmation. I have mixed opinions about the people who generally imitate a military member (excluding Golden Rivets list) some of the people who do it are not all there in the mind towards this kind of person I hold no ill feelings. Now a mentally sound person who is a phony that ticks me off as dose a vet who makes false claims.

01-13-16, 05:31 PM	#8
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,369 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	You can read the courts decision and the rational behind it at cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2014/10/29/11-35796.pdf The full court opinion (48 pages) can be accessed here https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datasto..../11-35796.pdf If you go to www.ca9.uscourts.gov and search for Swicher there are other documents that explain the process. The good news is that the other convictions against Swisher were not changed __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-13-16, 06:53 PM	#9
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	There's a fairly clear First Amendment case here, I think. Wearing medals you didn't earn should be legal. It doesn't mean we have to like it. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

01-14-16, 01:49 AM	#12
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	In the US outside of the military law(UCMJ) which applies to military members it is not illegal to wear a military medal not actually earned. There is the Stolen Valor Act which makes it illegal to make false claims of military service for personal gain. For example if a person said they where a Navy Seal during a job application when they where not. It illegal to impersonate a military officer as well.