First war patrol in LSH2015 - wow!

[K-61]

Ah, yes, the 3.7 flak gun. Nice toy. I have used it in the past to take down a ship or two that are just a bit too fat for the 20mm. For some reason I really suck at using the flak guns manually against planes, even after practice in the academy; I let a qualified non-com do the job for me when on patrol.

I've also been having a hard time using the deck gun manually. I used to do it now and then in GWX, but I forget now how to manually dial the range in using that gauge on the left side of the screen. I used to be good at nailing rounds just below the waterline, but I don't know if there are any keys in LSH for manual control of the deck gun.

I've lived a charmed life thus far, having never hit a mine, but did once find myself in a minefield by accident. Scary things. Because of them, and for the fact that I am not Gunther Prien, I don't go into the English lion's lair and raid harbours. I've done it in the past, but prefer open sea hunting.

I am around the north coast of Ireland at the moment, still on my way to BF17. I can't believe my blind luck sometimes to run across singles. I just ran into a five ship convoy with no escorts. I submerged and made torpedo attacks, taking out three in a row. The fourth I hit with a fish from the stern tube, then surfaced to deck gun the cripples. Though it was a rare treat to find such a convoy and still have calm enough seas to use the gun, I hope it doesn't happen too often and make me tonnage greedy. It is still 1939, but I don't think it will be long until all the merchants sport guns.

I lost that career from a few days ago, the one where I had the IXB. It was fun while it lasted, but I was playing around with SH3 Commander. I have worked out a routine which seems sound enough thus far. I used the LSH2015 executable to start a first career patrol, saved while at sea or in base, then use Commander to start the game after that. While I can't recall any disasters in the past from making slight changes to the boat before going on a first patrol with a new career, I have read enough to believe it is not a good thing to do, so I don't make any changes on a first patrol.

Another thing I do with Commander is use it to assign qualifications to newly arrived crew members. I hire on any new hands to fill vacancies, then exit the game, use Commander to assign the qualifications then ship out. I like using the qualification option in Cmdr so I have my watches arranged by duty, even the seamen. I know the seamen's quals have no in-game effect, but I like to use them as markers.

Last night on the way back to port in a very dark night, my boat got caught in a sluice gate. From the tower view I could see the gate being rendered in-game right through the boat. Boat taking damage, then crew dying as I tried ahead, astern, anything to get out of it. Glad I made a save before entering the canal. I reloaded, then used a free view to ensure the gate's operation.

So far in LSH2015 I have only seen one task force at sea, as recounted in an earlier post. Half a dozen cruisers and escorts, but I was just a bit too far away and they were hauling across my bow at distance. The seas were too calm; I would have had to adjust the speed on my steamers to get the range, and whether I hit or missed, the bubble trail would have pointed right back to me. That was a first patrol in a new career, so I had not made any changes to torpedo loadout to get G7E's. Normally I load two electrics, in tubes 2 and 3 and the stern tube[s.] I like electrics in case I run into warships, but the downside is their lack of range. In any case, even if I had electrics in that situation, they were too short-ranged to have fired at the cruisers.

I usually don't opt for electric torpedoes in the external storage, mainly for reasons of historicity. The game does not model the fact that torpedoes in external storage were usually serviced before being loaded into tubes. Batteries in the G7E, for example, needed to be charged. Gyros needed to be checked, air tanks tested, etc. I make it a house rule that externals must be "off limits" for a few hours after being taken aboard, to simulate the time the crew would need to service them. External torpedoes were more vulnerable to disruption, by the pounding of waves and especially shock from depth charge and bomb explosions.

I don't think I've had your particular trouble with the engine telegraphs, but the odd time I have hit the wrong detent. I usually use the number keys for the engines, and then fine tune manually if needed. Which reminds me, I used to manually set the RPM's on the electric motors to 50 RPM, to be especially quiet. I don't know if you can still do that in LSH2015. I recall from when I last played, several years ago, that you could jump into the engineer's station and click on the RPM dial, just as you do with the diesels, but when I went to try that in LSH2015, it either can't be done or I am forgetting how to do it. Anybody managing to do that in LSH?

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
Like you I let the qualified flak gunner do the work and he did a very good job with the single 20mm until he was killed.
I have all the caliber but have not come across any aircraft other than friendlies since taking the IXB.
With the larger boat you are likely to be sent to PQ grids where the VIIB does not have the range.
3 flak gunners with 2 having qualifications.
You can only man the flag gun in the winter garden when you use the larger 3.7cm gun.

I quite like the deck gun in this version.
Manning the deck gun I have 1 qualified gunner and I use 2 sailors from the deck crew as they will have nothing to do otherwise.
I use map contacts so the first thing I do if I am going to fire it myself is use the compass and get a range.
I do not get closer normally than 2000 metres as you are likely to get return fire from light weapons.
At night time I may get a little closer depending on weather conditions.
There is a deranged crew member who keeps saying we are under attack and taking damage when we are not if you get too close to the target.
F10 takes you directly to the gun.
The mouse wheel gives you the magnification.
Up arrow increases the range.
Down arrow reduces the range.
Left and right arrows traverse the gun.
The skill depends to a certain degree on the weather conditions as this affects the rise and fall of the gun barrel.
Depending on the range I will either stay stationery or match the targets speed.

At this early period of the war there are not many merchants that are armed and also few convoys about.
This changes quite quickly with also more air patrols noticeable if you are in range.
I think there is a map that shows the air patrol areas.

You mentioning SH3 commander I did not realize that you could still make changes in it.
I have taken the opportunity to randomize the gramophone.

I have only used the qualifications the 1 you are given after each patrol.
The game comes set up with some already in place.
In the early days I was enlisting and dismissing crew to get the best possible.
My crew is now very experienced and well above any crew that could now be enlisted.

With a new career it is not advisable to make any changes at first which is not really a problem as you are on a test mission anyway.
Once you have transferred then you are ok.

I am interested in how the SH3 Commander qualifications work?
I would not like it if you can give out a large number of qualifications to the crew as I think it is worth working for and something to look forward to at the end of each patrol.

I have kissed the sluice gates goobye.
I admit it was a novelty to start with.
I quite enjoyed the outward bound journey but I docked before using them on the return journey.

I like the G7e and carry quite a few of them.
I use them in the day and the G7a at night.
I do not use auto loading.
At around 3km the G7e is very useful for a longer shot in a convoy with the G7a for the shorter shot.
Tubes 1 & 2 G7a
Tubes 3 & 4 G7e
Tube 5 G7a
Tube 6 G7e
I did not know about the historical factors which is interesting.
I think you play at higher level than I do.
I do not use crew fatigue as I used it in RFB and I found it frustrating having to move the crew around all the time.
My crew is very static and does not move around only for damage control and the 2 for the deck gun.

1 knot in real time is slow enough for me.
I know in reality a stationery boat needs to be constantly trimmed to maintain depth.

I managed to get the telegraph working ok last night, so I am not sure what is happening there with that.
I suspect that Ahead Flank was carefully used as I would imagine if it was over used the diesel engines could be damaged.

I missed a large convoy last night.
It was heading towards Casablanca and I took up a position only to find it had made a sharp turn towards Gibraltar.
By the time it showed on the map again I was too far away and it was too close to the Gibraltar straits.
I am always a bit worried about getting too close because I would suspect that there would be quite heavy air patrols to protect the docks.
There are still however single merchants making there way to and fro so I managed to bag 4.

I have now started keeping spreadsheet records of all my sinkings in Patrol order and also the patrol grid where the sinking took place.
Whether this is practical or not only time will tell.
I am hoping a previously active grid will be fruitful.
I also have a spreadsheet with all the ships tonnages and drafts that I have come across.
This saves time and also the pause bar obliterates the ship type in the recognition manual which is frustrating.

This is my mod list.
_LSH3-2015___FULLVERSION
_LSH3-2015___Patch_HSIE-V16B1
_LSH3-2015__BunkerStart
_LSH3-2015__HistoricalMessages
_LSH3-2015__NoFatigue-NoSleepCrew
_LSH3-2015_ATM_GreenWater
_LSH3-2015_ATM_GreenWater-SunFix
_LSH3-2015_GUI__WIDESCREEN
_LSH3-2015_SLS_SpecialEffectsBig

I would be interest to know if you do not use the crew fatigue how you operate with your crew.

Peter

[K-61]

Pete,

I figured out last night by farting around how to fully operate my deck gun. Just played with the keys intuitively and it worked. As for flak guns, you can man the 3.7. I think you just hit the F11 key repeatedly to cycle through the flak stations.

Yes, I think we play much alike, but perhaps I am a bit more daring than many. I like to get into what I call "knife fighting" range. In surface gunnery with cripples, I close to less than 1,000 metres. I used to get as close as `00, but I learned my lesson when my boat took heavy damage from an exploding merchantman and I had deck crew killed. Now I will approach as close as 400-500 metres. I will parallel a cripple so I can bring all guns to bear. I will let the deck gun crew do their thing while I rake a vessel with the flak guns, going for command bridge, any suspected gun stations, searchlights and prop area at the stern, along the water line.

As I play LSH, I suspect that the damage model is not quite the same as GWX, but I am not certain of it. Just a hunch I have.

I use a similar torpedo loadout as you do, but I place identical torpedoes in 1 and 4, and 2 and 3 for salvo firing. I imagine trying to "balance" out the boat in real life and I like to load same torpedoes for the game's salvo buttons. Not that I very often use them, except for maybe a heavy warship where I want to quickly launch and then dive away.

Last night I took my VIIB down to BF 17. I had used most of my torpedo load on the way there, and then to take down a 5,000 tonner at night while I was chasing a nearby convoy B-dienst had reported. That left me with one G7E. I finished off the freighter with a few deck gun rounds; I did not wish to lurk and wait forever for it to sink on its own. Doing a scan through the scope I did not see any guns, so surfaced to gun it and then run after the convoy. Normally if I am after a convoy I will not divert to nearby sightings, but this one freighter wandered into view at the extreme range of sight. I diverted to give it one torpedo, which left me the one G7E.

Hauling after the convoy through the night at ahead full, I finally sighted a ship at the back of the convoy. As it was still dark, I approached closer and saw more columns. Determining its base course, I went around to the port side and did an end-around. I was nervous because there were several escorts and I only had one torpedo left. Was it worth the risk? Ach, Himmel, be more aggressive!

Racing against the clock, I worked my way around to the starboard side of the westbound convoy as the sky was lightening. I had to balance the need for speed to get into ideal position against the possibility of being sighted by rushing in. I dared to remain surfaced until the hair on my neck was standing on end, and set the decks awash. When I could bear the strain no longer, I dove to periscope depth and set slow ahead. As I got closer, I went to silent running at 1 knot and crept into a beam position. In the center of the convoy was a fat T3 estimated at 18,000 tons! Yes, one torpedo, could I damage it and force it fall out? Creeping closer I planned my attack; set the torpedo to run deep enough to run under a lesser valued ship, but impact trigger so it would not be set off it did run under another ship of lesser draft.

When I felt the time was right, I fired and immediately ordered a turn to the east and dive to 100 metres. After what seemed an eternity, the torpedo detonated against the T3. I hate those few seconds when you see the chronometer needle creep past the red line with no boom. Just as I was cursing my bad luck after all of that work, kaboom! Immediately the escorts began to fire starshells, but I was already leaving town. At no time did an escort come close enough to detect me; I had found a perfect gap in the screen and exploited it. Continuing me deep dive, I crept west for several hours and let the convoy haul away.

Coming up to scope depth, I had emerged about 7,000 metres astern of the convoy. I could pick out individual ships in the morning haze, but waited until they were about 10,000 metres away before surfacing to follow from astern and recharge the batteries. I came as close as 6000 metres to the convoy from astern, but the injured T3, though smoking, was having no trouble keeping station. I followed until afternoon, hoping it would fall out, but no luck.

Reluctantly, I gave up hope and set the course for the long journey home. Pulling into Wilhlemshaven, we were showered with flowers, champagne and cheap cologne and bedecked with medals. I have decided to stay with my VIIB in spite of the IXB now being offered. My crew has matured, with two planes shot down and a number of kills by torpedo and gun. Let's not mess with a good thing. We are now about to leave on patrol 3.

[K-61]

Oh, forgot to address your question about SH3 Commander qualifications. You can assign them in the "manage crew" option. I award a basic qualification to each crew member. I don't think BdU would send mere green kids to sea with no skills at all. My officers have two or three. The game recognizes all qualifications of officers, one of the PO's, except I think the highest PO can have two, and qualifications of seamen are not recognize in-game. I do use them as "markers" but I have found that if I click on the deck gun, the two seamen and one non-com get assigned there every time, so perhaps the game is recognizing the seamen skills?

As for fatigue, original model is garbage, with the staying power of the crew that on old age pensioner. It became rather distracting having to tell grown men to go to bed. In real life, all of the watch changes occur as a natural part of life at sea. We do not need to become micromanagers of every last detail and I appreciate the option of using SH3 Commander's "no fatigue" option. It does offer other models, like Real U-boat and GWX, but I don't know if they work with LSH and haven't tried them. "No fatigue" is not realistic, but it is in my opinion the best working option with what is available. More than "fatigue" per se suddenly stopping a diesel or electric motor from stopping, that is silly. However, overall the crew of any vessel does have a kind of running down over time, but there is no way of realistically depicting this in the game. I use a gut feeling that we have been at sea long enough and head for home. I will use a milk cow or replenishment at sea once in a while, but not to indefinitely stay at sea. Sometimes you just have to go home, and as Kaleun I make that decision. If my boat is damaged, we are going home for proper repairs.

[K-61]

One last observation before I head out again.

When we left Wilhelmshaven last night, we had just started leaving our berth when we get a report of airplanes. I thought it would be the ME-109's I used to see in GWX, but no, they were Blenheims or Wellingtons! I ordered my flak gunner into action, but where could I go in a busy port with practically no water under me keel?

I emerged to the watch view to see what happened. I saw my flak gunner firing and soon thereafter all three planes went down. To my surprise, I saw parachutes of bailed out crew, soon to become kriegsgefangener, sailing down into town and the port. I looked at my logbook but no entry of planes shot down, so I conclude that every warship in port had opened up with the flak guns. I don't know if LSH models ground-based flak, such as 88's, but somebody other than my gunner shot down those planes.

For that patrol I had not set "start at sea" in SH3 Commander. I know one thing, if I ever leave from port again, I will have my flak gun manned from the outset.

What excitement!

[K-61]

Just loaded up and left port, from the pier in Willy. Had my flak gunner at his station but no enemy planes appeared. This is certainly adding pucker factor to the game.

I know early in the war the RAF tried to attack German harbours right from the first day of the war. It did not work out well at all, as unescorted bombers, contrary to Guilio Douhet, did not always "get through." The RAF lost a batch of Wellingtons, I believe it was, in the Battle of the Heligoland Bight, if my memory is not faulty.

I have found that since my seizure last year and brain surgery to remove the [benign] tumour, I have been having some trouble recalling exact details of this or that battle. I used to be a walking encyclopedia, and I find I do still recall a lot, it is just not as sharp as it used to be.

Nonetheless, I am thankful for my recovery thus far and even the fact that I can play such a challenging game as SH3 encourages me. Each patrol I find more of my old skills returning and it feels like riding a bicycle that had been stowed in the loft for years. You are a bit wobbly at first, but you soon get used to it again.

I forgot one other notable event from my patrol last night. I sank a freighter and zoomed in for a look at the debris. I thought I was hallucinating at first, but I saw the fuselage of a Hurricane fighter! Later, when I checked my personnel file and logs in SH3 Commander, I saw that the freighter I sunk was listed as carrying aircraft.

I don't know who modded that in particular, but hats off for including such detail. Although most of my patrols I start at sea, I do find I enjoy being a tourist for the eye candy. I even saw Opel trucks and a car that looked like a Kubelwagen or similar car on shore.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
Wow, that was very detailed and a most enjoyable read.
I must next say congratulations on your recovery that must have been extremely worrying not only for yourself but also for your family.

No, you are definitely more daring than I am, which might be down to an age thing where I think when you are younger you are prepared to take more chances.

I will check out the F11 key but I am pretty sure that if you have the double winter garden set up with the 2 flak gun mountings you are able to go from gun to gun.

I think the ship you mentioned with the aircraft I remember sinking a Pyro Transporter 7100 tons that had an aircraft mounted above the bow.

The attack in Willy by allied planes I remember that also in one of my earlier games and like you my flak gunner did not hit anything.
You notice in port that all the ships are always manned.
It has however drawn my attention now and if I am leaving port or coming into port in daylight I now always have my flak guns manned.

I will take a look at the SH3 Commander qualifications.
This is my crew on patrol 12.

I have 3 officers showing actuals of 779,778, and 774
Don't forget that when you transfer to a new boat you take your crew and all qualifications, medals and points with you.

Your view on fatigue is similar to mine, as it is something that should look after itself.
As the captain I would expect the crew to address their own issues.

I think I may have to be a bit more daring with the deck gun and remember I am playing SH3 and not SH5.

I have never fired a salvo.
One thing I do find irritating is that the torpedo doors do not remain open when you go from one tube to the next.

You mention going to a beam position.
By this do you mean that you are between 2 rows in a convoy, parallel to them?
What is the shortest distance you have fired a torpedo from, and what speed did you use?

Patrol 12 off Gib has been quite rewarding.
I managed to attack the same convoy twice.
The first attack I fired 2 G7e at a Passenger Liner 21000 tons with a 12.6 draft in row 2 and 2 G7a at a T2 Tanker with a 9 draft in row 3 on fast settings.
I think I hit the Passenger Liner with 3 of them and number 4 missing everything.
The Liner was crippled but did not sink.
I had to wait for the escorts to disappear and then surfaced and used the periscope as the sea was at 15 wind speed and fired another eel and down she went.
I then managed to catch the convoy again and this time I did get the T2 Tanker.
As the convoy was beginning to reach the end of CG76 I decided not to pursue it again but I am currently making my way over towards BE71 and then later homeward to Lorient.

I think in these early days in the war the escorts have not developed the skills needed and so far I have only been damaged once by depth charges in the past 11 patrols.
I am sure both the air cover and the escorts will improve as time goes on but at the moment I am 5 months in to what was known as "Happy Times" so hopefully I can continue to make the most of it while it lasts.

Peter

[K-61]

By beam position I mean off to the side of the convoy, either with them in front of me, or positioned off to either side ahead of the convoy where I then wait for them to draw in front of me. I don't like taking off-angle shots unless I have to and am firing magnetic pistols.

My sense of daring varies according to the time of the war and Allied numbers, skill and technology. Early war, they are noobs, poor tactics paltry numbers of escorts and air cover. Even the planes they had were not particularly effective. Things changed as the crews gained more experience, more and better planes were put into operation and the weapons tweaked. For example, the depth settings on their aerial depth charges and bombs were set too shallow, I think it was. Through research and experience they found that U-boats were getting down and they were throwing their ordnance on top of their last position, where it detonated harmlessly. Once they set the bombs to detonate at about fifty feet, or 25 metres, there is my memory issue again, they began to enjoy more success. The idea was to get the charge to go off below a diving U-boat.

The invention of airborne radar and the Leigh Light really made planes a danger, as of course did ASW aircraft taken to sea on escort carriers, or very long range maritime patrol planes. It was normal practice to run surfaced at night to charge diesels. Without radar, it was practically impossible to find a surfaced U-boat in the dark. In daylight, a U-boat could see an aircraft and dive away in enough time to avoid damage. Generally, you needed good visibility to see a U-boat, but that visibility allowed the U-boat to see planes afar off. In poor visibility it was only a fluke if a plane happened upon a U-boat. Even then, there was so little time for the plane to set up an attack. The pilot was often as surprised to see the U-boat as was the U-boat to see the plane.

But once radar came along, poor visibility was the friend of the plane. He could now hunt in the dark, like a bat, and his prey could not see him. With the deployment of the Leigh Light, a plane could pick up a surfaced U-boat in the dark, running along and charging diesels, from miles away. He could set up his run, then when only a few hundred yards away would switch on the light. There was the U-boat, naked as the day it was born, with no time to dive away before being attacked.

Thinking about it now, it may have been the other way around... I think the bombs and charges were set too deep, so that when they attacked a U-boat, the explosions were too deep. The more I think about it, the more I think it was the change to 25 feet that made ordnance more effective. Even if the boat had just dived away, at 25 feet depth the charge could still cause damage. I will have to check one my U-boat books.

Getting back to convoy attacks...as I said, early war I am almost contemptuous of the escorts. If the weather is bad, or it is a very dark night, no moon, perhaps some fog, I may attempt to get inside the escort screen while surfaced and launch torpedoes, then turn away. Commanders like Kretshcmer, Prien and Schepke were bold enough to do this. Typically, the escorts would run around outside the perimeter, firing starshells outside the box. Inside the box, a U-boat running with decks awash was hard to see. I remember hearing Kretschmer talking about running past an escort and he could see a crewman shielding a lit cigarette in his cupped hand.

Although I can penetrate a convoy while surfaced at night, I find the game makes it harder to do than in real life. It is best in game to try this when the seas are in motion. Glassy smooth seas make it easy to spot a U-boat's wake. As well, you can't run around at high speed doing this, you must run at lower speeds. Fog can help, but it also shields the escorts from view. Nothing gives more pucker than suddenly seeing a destroyer come out of the fog about a few hundred yards away.

Having penetrated a convoy, I try to position myself diagonal to the columns, so I can use both stern and bow tubes. In the game the columns can be closer than in real life. Remember, your torpedo has to run 300 metres before it will arm. If the ships are only 500 metres apart, you will have to do some maneuvering to ensure this. I will usually fire my bow tubes first, then as the distance from the targets astern increases enough, I will fire my stern tube[s.]. This is why I call it knife fighting range.

Being inside the convoy can help shield you from escort scans. As soon as I fire, I start to dive deep and turn toward the stern of the convoy. This allows me some time to get deeper and let the convoy draw away from me as I quietly slip out the back. If time allows, and I have enough darkness, and if the convoy is slow enough, I will try to find every escort and its position around the perimeter and use that information to set up my attack and escape. If it is a faster convoy and you are running out of darkness, best to do the best attack you can. The escorts usually return to their former position after they hunt you, so if you make another attack later, you will know which part of the convoy has the strongest escorts.

Some players like to attack escorts first. This can leave a gaping hole in the perimeter which you can exploit later. I have used this tactic and had it work for me. You must have a reasonable expectation that you will be able to maintain contact with the convoy so you can come back later and attack from that unscreened quarter. Factors that you should consider if wanting to employ this stratagem: What period of the war is it, how close to shore [think planes] is the convoy? Is there a carrier nearby [have you seen carrier based planes?] Is the convoy approaching land or moving away from land based aviation? Is the weather improving or worsening, visibility, etc.? Do you have enough fuel for the high speed runs you will need to make? Last of all, how many torpedoes do you have? There is no point in using all or most of your torpedoes in attacking escorts, then to have few or none to attack the convoy.

I try to setup my attack so that I can get the highest value targets first, in case I lose contact with the convoy later or get forced by damage or other considerations [fuel!] into breaking contact. The type of torpedoes you have [steam or electric] and their speed and range will have to factored in. At night, it is best to use your steamers. In daylight, you may prefer to use your electrics. I prefer to keep electrics in my stern tubes for defense against warships, and also to ensure that when I fire, I am already moving away from the target or escorts. I also prefer to keep at least one torpedo for the trip home, in case I get attacked and am desperate to attack my tormentor, or for any targets of opportunity I see on the way home. On the other hand, I would rather attack a fat target in a convoy with my last torpedo than save it, hoping for an even fatter target on the way home. These are things that you as the Kaleun have to consider. If you are running low on fuel, what use is a belly full of torpedoes?

There are so many factors to consider in this game that I find it never gets old for me. This is a game that gets harder as you progress, not easier. In the early years I can be a tonnage whore, but as the war progresses I find simple survival becomes a priority. I have had my share of fun attacking unwary destroyers, but I find nothing more satisfying than grabbing the beard of the British lion, giving a tweak and then getting away. What do I mean by that? How about nailing a carrier they are escorting and getting away scot-free? Picking off a battleship at sea or other capital ship. Our priority as U-boat commanders is the merchant shipping attrition war, but every now and then we must give the Royal Navy a dent to its pride.

I am a Canadian, married to a girl I met in England when I was a young man travelling the country. I like to tease her every now and then when I enjoy a success in-game: "Dear, your mates are really cross with me right now. I sunk one of their carriers and Winston is jolly well miffed!" I often play with my gaming notebook in our bedroom, so when she comes to bed at night it is not unusual for her to hear me yelling in German at my crew or cussing out the Tommies.

Well, it is time to get back to the game. I am still in patrol 3; after several successes against singles I have been chasing a faster convoy for several days. I am now off the port beam, just close enough to keep them in sight. There is a Hunt class destroyer roaming about at the front of the convoy, sheepdogging for us Germans. I am planning to make an attack around nightfall. In the middle of the convoy there is a cruiser, as well as some very fat liners, tankers and freighters.

I've only got six torpedoes left: four in the bow tubes, one in the stern tube and one spare up front. My plan is to attack the fattest merchantmen, hoping that any that do not sink will soon fall out of this 9-knot convoy. It would be nice to hit the cruiser, but it is in the middle column, at the rear. That would mean allowing all the rest of the merchantmen passing me by in order to attack it. No, I think the merchantmen are the priority, and if the circumstances allow I may be able to fire a stern fish at her. So many fat targets and so few torpedoes.

I am approaching half a tank of fuel; whether I am successful or not I will soon have to consider heading home or perhaps hitting a supply tanker. The weather is still calm enough to use the deck gun, but that's only if the weather holds until this evening. Weather has a way of messing up the best laid plans. I recall once stalking a convoy in my small duck boat, only to have the weather close in and muck things up. That is life at sea, you take what cards you are given and play them.

I am happy to hear of your patrol successes. Enjoy the Happy Times while we can, kamerad. This war is going to get very interesting.

[K-61]

One opinion I would like to share with my fellow forum members:

There is nothing that screams out to me, "ahistorical!" than seeing a capital ship or ships escorting a convoy actually being in the convoy, and forced to proceed at the convoy's pace. A battleship or cruiser could make well over 20 knots, making it very difficult for a submarine to attack her. At certain times of peril, the Royal Navy would send capital ships to guard convoys, but as with fighters escorting bombers [with the exception of Goering's order to the ME-109's to stay with the bombers in the Battle of Britain, and early American missions over Germany] the escorts would keep up their higher speeds outside the convoy and would zig zag in order to stay nearby.

It would have been suicidal to place such valuable ships, easily capable of standing on their own if not chained to the convoy, inside the convoy. As with fighter planes escorting bombers, if forced to throttle back to the slower speed of their charges, they became sitting ducks. Galland and Moelders knew this and told Goering so, and American fighter commanders soon made this point clear when they were told to stick to the B-17's. Escorts are more effective when allowed to roam ahead or off to the sides.

From everything I have ever read about the naval war, I cannot recall ever reading that large naval escorts that guarded convoys sailed inside the perimeter. They sailed nearby, moving at higher speed and often changing course so as not to pull too far ahead of their convoys. They did not have to be inside the convoy to protect it from raiders, merely nearby. If anybody has sources or references that say I am wrong, please share them. I am now thinking that such capital ships should be removed from the convoys by modders, but at the same time I am sensitive to the fact that I am not a modder and I have great respect for those who are. I don't want this to sound like whining, as it is not; it is simply an observation and I hope I didn't hurt anyone's feelings with it.

Since I feel this way, the easiest thing for me to do about it is ignore such targets. The convoy I am currently stalking has a cruiser in it; I think I will pretend it isn't there; aside from that, there are some fat merchantmen the English merchant marine needs to be deprived of.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi K-61
I enjoyed reading how you go about setting up your attacks.
Your attacks from inside sound interesting and although I have had opportunities to do this I am always a bit concerned about the convoy lane widths.

The biggest problem for me is the weather when there is a wind speed of 15.
I can close to within about 1500 metres at 90 degrees and can see the targets through the scope at several thousand yards away and identify them.
When a target now gets close enough to a firing position I find that the periscope now seems to be more constantly under the water and seems to take ages to get even a glimpse again and on number of occasions the opportunities have been lost.
Could this be the wash from the convoy's propellers causing this?

Would you get closer?
I am used to playing SH5 and it is suicidal getting close to escorted convoys but I am new to SH3 and it may act differently.

Convoy rows in SH3 seem to be quite narrow so you must be firing at quite close range.
Do you have a maximum angle to the target that is effective?
I know in real life as you said the u-boats could move between the rows at night.
I have had opportunities to do this but have found some rows to be only 500 metres apart.
The other problem I could see is the scope being picked up by lights and coming under attack by light weapons.
I have noticed that all ships can return fire of some type if you get too close.

I wonder how we will survive the "hedgehog" when it comes.
I agree with you about the escorts.
They intend to run round like headless chickens.
I am not convinced also that the tactics of abandoning the convoy without an escort to look for the attacker is a sensible practice.
I also notice that if there are 3 escorts they try to find you while the convoy moves on.
What if there was more than one attacker lurking for this now undefended convoy.
They then move off after a while leaving the last one aimlessly roaming about until the convoy is over 10-15km ahead.

Do you do most of your attacks at 90 degrees?
Do you find that you are inclined to use the same distance to the first convoy lane?
What are your views on setting the ship drafts compared to the recognition manual?

I get a bit nervous sometimes when you get an escort that is on point position roaming around two to three thousand metres away and start coming towards you and then hopefully or luckily will turn to take up another position.

Patrol 12 is going quite well.
16 ships for 71000 tons.
A large number of small ships in the total.

I came across a small un-escorted convoy of 6 ships going north in BF71.
The leading two I took out with two rear torps.
Luck was in as there was no fog and no wind speed.
For once, thank you, a mill pond.
I then put a distance of around 1800 metres before surfacing and then positioned myself directly astern of the last ship, dropped the speed until I was traveling at the same knots speed.
I made sure that the WO had the deck gun icon on hold fire as I did not want to waste ammunition in taking these 4 out.
I took the deck gun and all went to plan.
It is useful to have that extra bit of clout with the 10.5cm

I am slowly making my way back to Lorient.
Plenty of fuel left in the IXB as I have only used just under 50% but low on torps only 2 rear ones left.

Incidently I have yet to come across any convoy heavily defended like you mentioned.
I think later when they bring in the escort carriers things I am sure will really hot up from above and below.

Peter

[Sailor Steve]

About qualifications: There is no such thing as an unqualified petty officer. He is never a "Petty Officer second class". He will be a "Radioman second class", or "Machinist Mate third class", or "Torpedoman first class". Having that rating is what makes him a petty officer.

For this reason my habit has long been to start with a "false patrol", preparing the boat and loading the patrol, then immediately ending it. Actually I take a little cruise around the harbor just for fun. After that I go in and qualify all my petty officers. I also remove all medals previously awarded by Commander, at least in 1939. Then I'm ready for my first real patrol.

In the game you can also give qualifications to the lower enlisted ranks. These do nothing in the game. PO quals do boost their skills.

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Steve

The qualifications that K-61 and myself were referring to are the game qualifications that can be awarded either through SH3 Commander or awarded at the end of a patrol when docking.

K-61 adds his game qualifications through SH3 Commander.
I only give my 1 game allowed qualification after docking.
The PO can also be promoted to a maximum of 300 points and is allowed only 1 game qualification.
The Officers can be promoted to 500 points and are allowed a maximum of 3 game qualifications.
LSH3-2015 starts with some game qualifications already given to the Officers.
Sailors can be promoted to 100 points, but not allowed to hold any game qualifications.

Peter

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by THEBERBSTER

The qualifications that K-61 and myself were referring to are the game qualifications that can be awarded either through SH3 Commander or awarded at the end of a patrol when docking.

And that is exactly what I was talking about. The game is wrong. I use Commander to give my crew the qualifications that they would have had historically.

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by K-61

There is nothing that screams out to me, "ahistorical!" than seeing a capital ship or ships escorting a convoy actually being in the convoy, and forced to proceed at the convoy's pace.

Well to every rule there is an occasional exception! I consider a cruiser a capital ship...and there is the HMS Sheffield Southampton sub class of the Town-classcruisers (with stainless steel fittings) clearly in the Artic/Murmansk bound convoy. HMS Sheffield engaged and sank German destroyer Friedrich Eckoldt, while also damaging the cruiser Admiral Hipper in the Battle of the Barent's Sea. Pic or it didn't happen: HMS Sheffield at starboard- front on convoy good reading here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II On yet another occasion : The deterrence value of a battleship in protecting a convoy was also dramatically illustrated when the German light battleships (referred by some as battlecruisers) Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, mounting 11 in (28 cm) guns, came upon an eastbound British convoy (HX-106, with 41 ships) in the North Atlantic on February 8, 1941. When the Germans detected the slow but well-protected battleship HMS Ramillies escorting the convoy, (clearly at convoy speed) they fled the scene rather than risk damage from her 15 in (38 cm) guns. On yet another convoy operation:
On 8 February 1941 Ramillies was on duty in the North Atlantic Ocean, escorting Convoy HX 106 comprising 41 ships eastbound from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Liverpool, England, when the two German battleships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau appeared over the horizon. The German squadron was under the command of Admiral Günther Lütjens. The captain of the Scharnhorst offered to draw off the Ramillies, so that the Gneisenau could sink the merchant ships. It is unlikely, however, that Ramillies‍ '​ captain would have left the convoy he was protecting to chase the much faster German ship. Further, Ramillies was armed with the excellent 15 inch gun and was capable of doing significant damage to the German vessels. In the event, Lütjens strictly followed Adolf Hitler's directive not to engage enemy capital ships. The presence of Ramillies was sufficient to deter the attack.
On 24 May 1941, Ramillies, with Captain Arthur D. Read commanding, was south of Cape Farewell, Greenland, on duty escorting Convoy HX 127 eastbound from Halifax. Some 57 merchant ships were in the group bound for Liverpool, with the most common cargoes being, oil, aviation spirit, lubricants, gasoline, lumber, grain, steel, sugar, scrap iron and pig iron. Two ships carried general cargo, and there were single ships carrying molasses, trucks and cereals. Other escort vessels were designed to meet the submarine menace, and included a modern Canadian destroyer, HMCS Ottawa, the Indian navy sloop, HMIS Sutlej, an obsolete ex-US Navy destroyer, HMS Salisbury, an escort destroyer, HMS Hambledon, the corvettes HMS Larkspur, HMS Begonia and several other smaller ships. If anything, Ramillies would have been a liability dealing with submarines. She was there as insurance against attack by surface raiders.
If Ramillies had to face a major surface attack, the two destroyers were probably the only escorts of value to her.
The new German battleship Bismarck broke out into the North Atlantic after sinking the battlecruiser HMS Hood, Britain's largest warship, in the Battle of the Denmark Strait. Ramillies was well east of Newfoundland to the southwest of Bismarck, and if she had continued her raid, Ramillies was all that the Royal Navy had to stop her from ravaging the sealanes off North America. On 24 May 1941 the Admiralty ordered Ramillies to leave the convoy and steam on a course to intercept the enemy ship. Bismarck had sustained some damage in the action against the Prince of Wales, and opted to make for France for repairs, instead of continuing on a convoy raiding mission.
It was a measure of the desperation of the Royal Navy that such an old ship was sent out alone to intercept one of the world's most potent battleships which was supported by the heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen. [wiki] Fortunately for her, she was not put to the test. In fact the capital ships on convoy duty were expendable; a hard fact of war.... HMS Ramillies' excellent 15" gun at British Imperial War Museum

[THEBERBSTER]

Hi Steve

It all comes down to the level of how you want to play the game.
In your case historically accuracy is important to you and that is your prerogative.
I just play the game as a game and enjoy it in my own way.

Peter