A military strategic question

[Von Tonner]

A news report written back in 2009 provides interesting insight to the present and to Putin's thinking on what he refers to as "Little Russia"

"Putin is not known for his tact when speaking of Russia's western neighbor, which declared independence from the Soviet Union in 1991. In April 2008, a source told Russia's Kommersant newspaper how Putin described Ukraine to George Bush at a NATO meeting in Bucharest: "You don't understand, George, that Ukraine is not even a state. What is Ukraine? Part of its territories is Eastern Europe, but the greater part is a gift from us."

http://content.time.com/time/world/a...900838,00.html

[Jimbuna]

I'm of the opinion the aid convoy will be bringing humanitarian aid and is not an excuse to join or engage in military action.

There isn't much the west can do if I'm wrong though and all should be revealed in the next day or so.

[Wolferz]

If General Patton had been given his wish back in 1945 we probably wouldn't see any of this malarkey today.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Wolferz

If General Patton had been given his wish back in 1945 we probably wouldn't see any of this malarkey today.

No.

Quotes by Patton on Russian troops in 1945 must be compared with what he wrote about American troops in Tunisia after Kasserine, about British troops in Sicily when in Messina, about German troops and civilians when he got command of an Army in Normandy, about Bradley when he learned that he had been bypassed by this army group commander, about black troops in combat, and about Field Marshall Montgomery on all occasions.

Patton was a very good general for armored action, but a very poor diplomat, and maybe a not so efficient manager for global operations. He benefited from a very large supply of materials, and first class divisional officers. However in one case, the stop on the Moselle, with restricted gasoline and deficient ammunition supply, he did not solve the problem in a better manner then his neighbors.

Remember also his dreams and nightmares. Obviously he was in some ways not entirely normal. Reincarnation of Napoleon and other conquerors, remembering his presence in big battles of the past, are not everyone's thoughts.

Better to remember the opinion Eisenhower expressed on his flight to Moscow immediately after the war. In his memoirs he noted at how he didn't see an intact village or town the entire trip. What were we going to take from them that they hadn't already lost?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

I'm of the opinion the aid convoy will be bringing humanitarian aid and is not an excuse to join or engage in military action.

There isn't much the west can do if I'm wrong though and all should be revealed in the next day or so.

That's if the Ukrainian government let's it through:

Security council spokesman Andriy Lysenko said aid should pass through a government-controlled border post and be accompanied by Red Cross officials.

I can understand this, tbh, if I were in Kiev I'd be concerned that the convoy was being used to smuggle weapons too.

[mapuc]

OK, no interfering in Ukraine

I have throughout the crisis in Ukraine read commentators in Swedish and Danish newspaper saying that Putin is our times Hitler/Stalin and his goal is to retake what USSR lost when it collapsed

Could be that Putin just is interested in East Ukraine and nothing more. What if some of these commentators(expert in Putin and/or Russia) are right and Crimea and Ukraine is just the first among more former countries to USSR.

Lets look very negative into it.

Let assume Putin have more countries in his mind, then I believe NATO/USA have to put a stop to his "lebensraum"

I myself believe or hope that Crimea and East Ukraine is enough for Putin.

Markus

[Oberon]

Naah, what Putin wants is a military and economic buffer zone between Russia and NATO nations. Since 1990, NATO has crept closer and closer to the Russian border, and this is perceived (correctly or otherwise) as a threat to Russian national sovereignty, so Russia is pushing back. They can't do anything to the likes of Poland and the Baltic states without getting NATO onto them, so they'll push in the places still available, the Ukraine, Georgia and possibly later on, Belarus.

EDIT: Also, 20k!

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Naah, what Putin wants is a military and economic buffer zone between Russia and NATO nations. Since 1990, NATO has crept closer and closer to the Russian border, and this is perceived (correctly or otherwise) as a threat to Russian national sovereignty, so Russia is pushing back. They can't do anything to the likes of Poland and the Baltic states without getting NATO onto them, so they'll push in the places still available, the Ukraine, Georgia and possibly later on, Belarus.

EDIT: Also, 20k!

Thanks for reminding me.

That what some of these commentators wrote. He will clearly stay away from former USSR countries that are a member of NATO today or EU.

As mentioned before. Let hope he's only interested in East UKraine and Crimea.

Congrats to your 20 K post()

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Oberon

That's if the Ukrainian government let's it through:

Security council spokesman Andriy Lysenko said aid should pass through a government-controlled border post and be accompanied by Red Cross officials.

I can understand this, tbh, if I were in Kiev I'd be concerned that the convoy was being used to smuggle weapons too.

If the convoy picks up a Russian military escort as it nears the border I'm doubtful the Ukrainians could stop it but it would show all the world what Putins real intentions were.

He's not that brave or stupid...is he?

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

If the convoy picks up a Russian military escort as it nears the border I'm doubtful the Ukrainians could stop it but it would show all the world what Putins real intentions were.

He's not that brave or stupid...is he?

I doubt he'd give it an escort, more like he'll let this one get sent back and then go again with an escort.

[Skybird]

There is great relief in Kiev. The rumoured suspicious convoy of trucks from Russia that were feared to hide weapons and even fighters, when it approached the border was found to be formed not of trucks but harmless huge wooden horses for a regional culture festival.



Meanwhile it gets reported that the next assembly of the Russian Duma will be held on the Crimean peninsula, with Putin attending it, too. A message to the West and Kiev.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Skybird

There is great relief in Kiev. The rumoured suspicious convoy of trucks from Russia that were feared to hide weapons and even fighters, when it approached the border was found to be formed not of trucks but harmless huge wooden horses for a regional culture festival.

[mapuc]

Earlier today I saw and heard a commentator on the Danish news channel TV2NEWS saying

That this convoy started from Moscow and that no Journalist is allowed to join/follow this convoy first hand is...

Wonder what's going to happen if Russia defuse Ukraine's demand to change from the Russians lorry to Red Cross lorry ?

Markus

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Perfect! Obama's gesturing and the general's facial expression perfectly match!

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I doubt he'd give it an escort, more like he'll let this one get sent back and then go again with an escort.

https://twitter.com/BBCSteveR/status/499832198355492864

It's not just white aid lorries that are heading down the highway towards Rostov: military vehicles, too.