Good racing sim?

[Red October1984]

Okay...so let's talk about the F1 series for a second.

F1 2010 made the list of "best racing games" that i'm reading...course 2012 and 2013 are on there too...but I doubt I can run those. 2010 though, maybe.

Would the F1 series be worth looking into or does GTR2 still take the cake? Maybe an older F1 would be better?

Also, as far as hardware goes. What brand/model of racing wheel do you guys recommend. I found one that immediately caught my eye and immediately stole my heart but it's a little expensive.

Logitech G27 Racing Wheel

Authentic steering wheel, paddle shifters, six speed gearshift, clutch pedal...

*want*

[Skybird]

Just for the sense of completeness:

http://www.netkar-pro.com/main/

Free tracks:

http://www.drivingitalia.net/forum/i...07#entry594190

For 4 bucks, it is worth it, if for no other reason that the default Trneto-Bondone hillclimb, and the mod of the Nordschleife, looking old, but driving it with this title is fun.

As for your questions, on F1 I cannot answer with own experience, but the title has the reputation of being no hardcore simulation, and feeling arcadish.

On wheels, racing simulations with xbox controllers is like planes without wings: it does not compute. You can be fast, yes: but you never have the feeling of actually driving something, instead you control something with an exotic alien device in wq somewhat queer manner, that happens to look like a car.

Next, FFB is a must. Good simulations just provide too much info via the steering, which is especially true for the latest generation of sims like AC.

Next is the wheel rpotaiton angle. Chepaer models offer 250°, and good ones can be had for 150 Euros on. I had the Ferrari 430, and I love dit, it had very good manufacturing quality, and a nice heavy, solid feeling.

I upgraded from there - for AC - to the G27. Main difference is that this wheel rotates 900°. Also, it has a clutch pedal, and the manual shifter. In buttons oin the wheel (quality, number) ,it is inferior, also, the paddle of the 430 felt better, more solid. However - I never regretted the additional investment, those 900° make all the difference.

Wheel of 900° and even 1050° can be had for much more money. Yu can spend almlost a thosuand dollars for Wheel, pedals, shifter, and even more. Seen that way, the G27, with reaosnmable quality and good performance, imo offers the best bang-for-the-buck ratio on the market. In Germany, it can be spotted for 230-250 euros occassionally, sometimes for 280-300.

If you can get it for 250 Euros, get it, it is an okay price.

If you go for second hand, keep in mind that FFB wheels have wear and tear, you then should secure some sort of a warranty in case the wheel shows to be dysfunctional soon. If there is some clearance/tolerance of the wheel's axis centre, well, some is okay, too much obviously is not. Do not buy second hand without being able to check the item before with your own hands and eyes. Usually, people report happily about the longevity of the wheel.

If you can afford the price, the G27 is a good choice, therefore. It's worth to save a little for it. If you pay 120 for something less, I would say you waste money. If you feel like that, try to find a 430 for around 130-150 Euros, for the above reasons I mentioned. also: it looks nice and has this cool feature, the Manettino switch

I just checked US Amazon for the 430. Boy that thing is expensive over there! Forget it. I got mine some years ago for 150 euros, it now costs 330 dollar. The G27 is cheaper with US Amazon!

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-941-0...1&keywords=G27

244 dollars, that is 178 Euros. For German market conditions, that would be sensationally cheap.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by les green01

iracing online is neat can be alot of fun and sometimes if your lucky you can race against the real pro drivers

If you are so alien that you can keep up with them.

[les green01]

aye but still fun and good pratice now if i can get my buddy to believe i have race aginst jr and some of the other nascar drivers

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Just for the sense of completeness:

http://www.netkar-pro.com/main/

I had looked at that...but a game with MP only opponets just turns me off. I would maybe be able to play it twice a month until the Summer comes around.

I tried out the demo of Race 07 on Steam. I really like it other than the fact that it's impossible to drive a manual transmission with a keyboard. For some reason, when you kill it, you cannot start it again. I messed with it for a while. It's good fun...I can drive around the demo tracks pretty good at around 75 mph. If GTR2 is a better version of this, i'm sold on it.

I can easily see that a wheel, clutch pedal and shifter would be so helpful.

As for your questions, on F1 I cannot answer with own experience, but the title has the reputation of being no hardcore simulation, and feeling arcadish.

I had read that the 2010 version is like....the comprehensive F1 simulator on the market and that the series, recently, had been putting out great stuff. I'm not convinced on it.

244 dollars, that is 178 Euros. For German market conditions, that would be sensationally cheap.

I am going to have to be really working this summer if I want one of these. I really do. That would be awesome. I can see that it also works with a PS3....maybe eventually when they drop in price I can use it for console racing if and when I have some money.

How does the shifter/clutch match up to a real car? That's my only real question. I can deal with an unrealistic gas/brake/wheel....but the clutch and gearbox....I can't expect it to feel like a real car

EDIT: There's a cheaper, older model of the G27 out there. The Logitech G25. That looks like a more reasonable price at around 200$

[Skybird]

Less buttons, louder, and the shifter can be switched between two modes, but that is not really all welcomed. simHQ com had an indepth hardware review comparing the two. Check their archives.

If you are low on money I wonder why you maintain two platforms, PC and console. I would focus on just one then.

A good eye-candy title is the upcoming Project cars. I tried it in early October, that build lo90oked nice, but I think of the title being hopelessly inferior in physics to AC. However, that could change, if they work on it. Depends on where their focus is. Sounds also are slightly inferior. But the looks are really good, and they currently lead in the day-and night cycle department, and weather, both will hit AC not before a later, unspecified date.

All those titles however have download volumes in the two digit GB-range. If your internet connection is bad, well, you will need to download for days. AC default lists 30 GB for 1.0. I already have I think 11 GB in skins adding up to that...

I have no idea what your situation is, how old you are. Are you already working for a living, or are you still at school, and jobbing over the holidays? It hits me that since over a year people tell you to save money and buy a decent system first, and then invest in more games, instead of investing into old games all the time. You asked for older stuff in the flight forum and general games, too. One thing shoukld be clear to you: wheel or not, GSC or Race or GTR2 in no way compare to AC. You said early in this thread you want the racing sim that comes closest to AC. Well, none of the mentioned titles does.

Maybe think about priorities,a nd the right order in which to do stuff. Basics first. Bonus content later. Bonus is of no use if the basics cannot maintain it. Compromises on and on sooner or later raise more anger and disappointment than satisfaction. Maybe be patient, save, and do it right, over a longer period of time if necessary...?!

[Skybird]

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_153a.html

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Less buttons, louder, and the shifter can be switched between two modes, but that is not really all welcomed. simHQ com had an indepth hardware review comparing the two. Check their archives.

If you are low on money I wonder why you maintain two platforms, PC and console. I would focus on just one then.

I really like both. They both have great things to offer.

I have no idea what your situation is, how old you are. Are you already working for a living, or are you still at school, and jobbing over the holidays? It hits me that since over a year people tell you to save money and buy a decent system first, and then invest in more games, instead of investing into old games all the time. You asked for older stuff in the flight forum and general games, too. One thing shoukld be clear to you: wheel or not, GSC or Race or GTR2 in no way compare to AC. You said early in this thread you want the racing sim that comes closest to AC. Well, none of the mentioned titles does.

Maybe think about priorities,a nd the right order in which to do stuff. Basics first. Bonus content later. Bonus is of no use if the basics cannot maintain it. Compromises on and on sooner or later raise more anger and disappointment than satisfaction. Maybe be patient, save, and do it right, over a longer period of time if necessary...?!

As this thread keeps going along that's what i'm thinking.

"Wait, get a better system and come back."

Internet connection won't change....it's always going to be slow here. I live in the woods.

Which, that's been my goal for a while now...save money and get a new PC. I'm a high school student working a part time job at a grocery store. Saving money isn't easy working 5 hours a week. I've always been one to get the most bang for my buck.

For priority on my money saving...this is a good 3rd/4th on the list. So it may be a while...

At this point, I'm seriously just considering getting a Forza Motorsport title for a couple dollars and holding off for now. Because racing simulation can get expensive.

This is why I get opinions and ask questions.

[eddie]

Nothing wrong with asking questions Red, its the only way you'll learn about these games. I stick with rFactor, still many nice mods coming out for it. Project Cars and Ac look wonderful BTW, but you have to ask yourself, how long will you stick with the game? I use most games from the casual user catagory. Not so serious a user that a certain game will suck up every dollar I have. I don't need a G27 wheel, nothing wrong with it, just don't want to tie up so much money when I won't use it all the time. Whats the point? If you use driving sims all the time, then its a must have! But, if you are a casual player like me, you don't need a wheel like that.
Project Cars is coming out for the console near Christmas this year, don't know if AC will be for the console or not? If you are going to get Forza, from what I've been reading about it, get Forza 4, it has many more cars in it, the Forza 5.

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by eddie

I stick with rFactor, still many nice mods coming out for it. Project Cars and Ac look wonderful BTW, but you have to ask yourself, how long will you stick with the game?

That's the thing. I really really like what I see...but how long will I stick with it and how much further will this genre go?

I'm not ready to pay 800$ for a new PC and for racing apparatus.

Project Cars is coming out for the console near Christmas this year, don't know if AC will be for the console or not? If you are going to get Forza, from what I've been reading about it, get Forza 4, it has many more cars in it, the Forza 5.

I've done a bit of research on Forza. I can get 3 pretty cheap. 4 seems to be the better deal though. With it's number of cars and features, it sounds a lot more realistic than what I've been playing.

The way I see it, I should stick with console games for now, and if I want to go further in the future, I have the PC as an option.

[les green01]

Red i ask myself three things anymore when it comes to money do i need it do i want it do i got to have it and the last one anymore wins out

[Red October1984]

Originally Posted by les green01

Red i ask myself three things anymore when it comes to money do i need it do i want it do i got to have it and the last one anymore wins out

Exactly.

Right now, most of my money is going to helping a friend with gas and eating on the go.

I guess it's either not have a ride anywhere and not eat and save up....or get where I need to go and eat.

[les green01]

there you go red last thing i bought that i wanted was 1847 walker repica from cabelas

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by eddie

Nothing wrong with asking questions Red, its the only way you'll learn about these games. I stick with rFactor, still many nice mods coming out for it. Project Cars and Ac look wonderful BTW, but you have to ask yourself, how long will you stick with the game? I use most games from the casual user catagory. Not so serious a user that a certain game will suck up every dollar I have. I don't need a G27 wheel, nothing wrong with it, just don't want to tie up so much money when I won't use it all the time. Whats the point? If you use driving sims all the time, then its a must have! But, if you are a casual player like me, you don't need a wheel like that.
Project Cars is coming out for the console near Christmas this year, don't know if AC will be for the console or not? If you are going to get Forza, from what I've been reading about it, get Forza 4, it has many more cars in it, the Forza 5.

They hinted at a possible console port of AC. Sales of Early Access apparently overtook their expectations tremendously, also the amount of interest they got from the US, considering that it is a quite euro-focussed package so far.

Forza , Gran Turismo, and by what I saw in that autumn build: Project Cars, should not be compared to iRacing, Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2. Realism is not just looks, but physics and the feeling to realistically drive a real car. And realism is what differs at least these groups.

Ideally, the playxer must notr find out how to behave in a sim to make it doing what he wants, but the sim should behave like the real thing and the player just treats the sim like the real thing as well. this is where AC scores so heavily, and why I just hotlapped dozens of hours and was happy, before AI came. I still prefer hotlapping or practicing, simply because the feel of driving. That is satisfaction in itself.

I agree that the financial investment for a wheel only makes sense when you make use of it that justifies that investment. That is a question of time, and taste. I personally have two wheel now due to my upgrade, and would have paid three times the price for AC, that much I play it and like it. The occasional arcade gamer maybe not necessarily needs a wheel and financial costs mounting indeed.

[Skybird]

Red, at youtuibe there is a guy called Empty Box (or Emptybox, I do not remember), and he has posted PLENTY of cockpit videos from all racing sims of the past couple of years, dozens of videos. Find his channel.

then check for some older videos about netKar and Nordschleife in the rain, older GTR-2 videos, and GSC 2013. By that you get good impressions of what each title is looking like and what it offers you.

NetKar and GTR-2 can be had at 5 Euros or less. Many mods out there for free, cars, tracks, sounds. That may be money you are able to afford, and maybe one can have fun from using the console controller you now have (I assume). An interim solution that maybe saves you from spending more money for a wheel that maybe is not really justified in your situation. Just a thought.

And an alternative: Richard Burns Rally. Racing that is difficult and very demanding, but thus: rewarding. And it is very different, really. A top title, and still the best rally sim out there, after ten years. It made me curse more than any other.

Also still an alternative if you can secure a cheap deal: Papyrus NASCAR 2003. Very intense pack racing, and one of the best AIs in racing sim history. But like richard Burns: it is difficult, and takes time to get into the hang of things. It cured my from my European belief that driving in circles is boring, and pointless. Boy, I did not know how much sweat I could produce in what a short amount of time. A real nail biter if the field gets close.


Emptybox made videos on these two games, too. Watch them.

Oh, and look at youtube for "netKar Trento Bondone". I have the strong impression you underestimate how much fun you can get from not racing AI, but doing certain tracks like hillclimbs or the Ring all alone. Before AC, my last racing game was netKar and GTR2. I hotlapped the Schleife for the past years, and almost exclusively. Races I did almost never.