Too many dids...

[Raven Morpheus]

Hello, me again...

Just come back again to SH4 after giving it a rest for a while (since November last year) and I'm having troubles again...

I've got the Real Environments mod (v5.0) and Game Fixes Only mod installed.


I'm not having problems hitting ships with torpedoes (well, when they're going nicely in a convoy line astern at least, when the convoy breaks up and starts circling, usually after the 1st ship is hit, is another barrel of fish) but I am getting a lot of duds.

For example I just did the sub school mission (to check my targeting) where you have to sink the (Mogami?) warship and all though I had 100% fish on target 50% of them were duds!! I watched using the free camera and the one's that are duds just bounced off the hull!!

I've tried firing at what I consider short range (800yds) on slow speed with contact detonators, I've tried magnetic detonators, and I've tried longer ranges with high speed - I've basically tried all combinations of speed/detonators. Nothing seems to work.

This was also happening yesterday in my campaign when I had a nice juicy big fat large convoy of about a half dozen merchant ships or more going at 9knots!


I've read that it's common for this to be the case as it was thus in real life, but is there a way to reduce the problem - I simply cannot believe US sub captains knew there was such a problem and just had to live with it (i.e. they didn't find some tactic/workaround whatever to deal with it)?!

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by Raven Morpheus

I've read that it's common for this to be the case as it was thus in real life, but is there a way to reduce the problem - I simply cannot believe US sub captains knew there was such a problem and just had to live with it (i.e. they didn't find some tactic/workaround whatever to deal with it)?!

It was quite a scandal. The straw that finally broke the camels back was the notorious incident in 1943, when a U.S. submarine commander crippled a large freighter with a spread of two torpedoes, then carefully squared off his boat and fired no less that thirteen additional torpedoes at a theoretically perfect angle of impact at the theoretically perfect range. Not one detonated. After taking his last remaining torpedo home for examination the problem was finally sorted, but even that came after having to prove to the Ordinance Bureau that the torpedoes ran deeper than set, and the magnetic exploder didn't work. Two and a half years into the Pacific War.

Historically, a quick fix after the torpedo defects were finally acknowledged, was to encourage "glancing" shots (which cut the number of duds in half),until a permanent solution could be found. A direct hit on the target at a 90 degree angle, as recommended in training, would result in a failure to detonate. The exploder only functioned when the torpedo impacted the target at an oblique angle.

[ETR3(SS)]

And to add to that, the reason the detonators didn't work is that they were being crushed by the straight on impact.

[neilbyrne]

The most astonishing incident I've read about the failures coincident with US torpedo fuzing in WWII concerns Albert Einstein. He was, as I remember, touring the torpedo works on Goat Island, RI prior to the war. He was very proudly handed a Mk 6 fuze to examine. After looking, he quickly said that it would never work to the shock of all assembled. But wait. Thereafter, he returned to New York and drew a diagram denoting the required fixes and sent it to the navy. All ignored.

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by neilbyrne

The most astonishing incident I've read about the failures coincident with US torpedo fuzing in WWII concerns Albert Einstein. He was, as I remember, touring the torpedo works on Goat Island, RI prior to the war. He was very proudly handed a Mk 6 fuze to examine. After looking, he quickly said that it would never work to the shock of all assembled. But wait. Thereafter, he returned to New York and drew a diagram denoting the required fixes and sent it to the navy. All ignored.

That's interesting. I had never heard of a connection between Albert Einstein and torpedo/Navy work.

I've heard the frugal Depression era economics get a lot of the blame. A torpedo was considered to be an expensive item to the fleet budget for practice purposes. Therefore torpedoes were not tested to destruction. They were fired against soft targets with floatable warheads so they could be salvaged for reuse. Seems crazy in retrospect that the warheads were almost never tested.

[neilbyrne]

The Einstein incident is related on pg 119 of Russell Crenshaw's book, The Battle of Tassafaronga, Naval Institute Press.

[merc4ulfate]

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/torpedo/index.htm

It is my belief that if the core rod had been cut one half to one inch shorter the dud rate would have went down drastically.

Premature detonations was most likely the fault of moisture in the detonator mechanism.

I have noticed in the game with the mods I am running the dud rate does not significantly drop until mid to late 1943. Until then ... happy suffering.

http://www.historynet.com/us-torpedo...rld-war-ii.htm


Generic Mod Enabler - v2.6.0.157
1_TriggerMaru_Overhaul_2-5
1_TMO_25_small_patch
RSRDC_TMO_V502
RSRDC_V5xx_Patch1
Traveller Mod v2.6 TMO
#1 Real Environment mod install
Traveller Mod 2.6 Patch 1 - ISE v3 Patch
#4 Warships retextured
Traveller Mod 2.6 No Midway Transfer
Traveller Mod 2.6 No DC Camera Shake
Traveller Mod 2.6 Larger Search Patterns
Traveller Mod 2.6 Harder Enemy AI Escorts
Traveller Mod 2.6 Automatic Ship ID
Traveller Alternate Main Loading Screens
Convoy Routes TMO+RSRD
tambor198's TMO+RSRDC missions pack

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