The AR15 as a gadget

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

That all depends in well trained hands a rifle with bayonet becomes a very effective melee weapon and can be very deadly.In combat of course the bayonet is only used when the normal role of the firearm is not a viable option.This is very rare in modern warfare but up until the end of WWII a bayonet was a very viable weapon and still is in very close quarters.

I do not know when it comes to more recent wars but in Vietnam the bayonet saw a lot of use and they do get fixed even today.Sorry the video has some language.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=121_1246978752

Outside of direct warfare the value of a bayoneted firearm is more questionable though some police officers are killed by getting beaten to death sometimes with their own pistol proving that at extreme close range and blade never hurts or that it can be impossible to bring the ballistic advantage to bear sometimes.

Firearms are poorly balanced for melee combat. Giving up your tactical advantage at range to try to use your bayonet on a skilled practictioner will result in said practitioner holding the firearm. If you are talking about carrying a knife with you, that would be an effective alternative in close combat, given training of course. If you are talking about putting a bladed weapon on the end of your 3 1/2 foot long M1, then we are talking about a massive drop in combat efficiency at close range. Again, what works on the battlefield does not necessarily translate into what works in personal defense.

[breadcatcher101]

Even the M1 carbine, a very short weapon had a bayonet and they did have a purpose. My uncle carried one in WW2 and he said they always used it when escorting prisoners.

As for combat, better than nothing I would think.

[August]

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

Nothing wrong with adding a scope, August. I would have bought that one but like i said, too much was wanted for it.

Mine also has the triangle grip as well as a fixed butt stock. From a distance it loks like one of the early type M16's except mine has the enclosed bird cage.

And I do have a bayonet. Not that I need it, but I got in out of respect for a couple of senators from California.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Firearms are poorly balanced for melee combat. Giving up your tactical advantage at range to try to use your bayonet on a skilled practictioner will result in said practitioner holding the firearm. If you are talking about carrying a knife with you, that would be an effective alternative in close combat, given training of course. If you are talking about putting a bladed weapon on the end of your 3 1/2 foot long M1, then we are talking about a massive drop in combat efficiency at close range. Again, what works on the battlefield does not necessarily translate into what works in personal defense.

I don't see the point of your post when I clearly stated that the bayonet was the best viable option for a solider a different situation than personal defense.A person that has a firearm for personal defense would be wise to have something else to fall back on in the case of a very close quarters situation where bringing the firearm to bear is not possible.A bayonet would not be a good choice because the likelihood of facing someone with a bayoneted rifle or I recon a spear is not very high.

I did not say that perfectly clearly the first time sorry about that.

[nikimcbee]

Originally Posted by TFatseas

I am a firm believer in the K.I.S.S principle.

(Keep It Simple Stupid) Mine is nothing more than A3 upper with a detachable A2 carry handle.

Might get a red dot or a small 3x scope in the future though, I'm not sure yet. First priority is for the panic to die down so I get my hands on more mags and .223.

See AK-47

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by breadcatcher101

Even the M1 carbine, a very short weapon had a bayonet and they did have a purpose. My uncle carried one in WW2 and he said they always used it when escorting prisoners.

As for combat, better than nothing I would think.

Yes, you are absolutely right; it was better than nothing. This was the guiding principle behind it's invention as well. It was designed during the advent of the modern era of warfare as a weapon of last resort for single-shot firearms, thus turning the rifle into an impromptu polearm. Of course, it suffererd from the same problem that all polearms do; they had limited range of motion and they functioned best when used in groups. This is why soldiers that carried these firearms, like the committed polearm soldiers, carried a sword until the firearm technology advanced to give soldiers a faster-loading weapon.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

I don't see the point of your post when I clearly stated that the bayonet was the best viable option for a solider a different situation than personal defense.A person that has a firearm for personal defense would be wise to have something else to fall back on in the case of a very close quarters situation where bringing the firearm to bear is not possible.A bayonet would not be a good choice because the likelihood of facing someone with a bayoneted rifle or I recon a spear is not very high.

I did not say that perfectly clearly the first time sorry about that.

To be honest, I didn't see the real purpose behind your remarks given that the thread was about personal defense, and not battlefield combat, but I was more or less carrying through with the discussion to be polite.

[Stealhead]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

To be honest, I didn't see the real purpose behind your remarks given that the thread was about personal defense, and not battlefield combat, but I was more or less carrying through with the discussion to be polite.

You come across as a person that it is hard to openly discuss certain topics with to put it in polite way.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

You come across as a person that it is hard to openly discuss certain topics with to put it in polite way.

I'll keep my opinion on you to myself. Now let's have the two of us stop hijacking this thread.

[Dammit_Carl!]

http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/88G...SE_MESSER.aspx

For those times when a bayonet is not enough, that AR gets too expensive to feed and your inner Conan is crying to be let loose.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Dammit_Carl!

http://www.coldsteel.com/Product/88G...SE_MESSER.aspx

For those times when a bayonet is not enough, that AR gets too expensive to feed and your inner Conan is crying to be let loose.

That would be a step in the right direction. Very effective outdoors, but much less so in narrow rooms and hallways, as well as with ceilings lower than 10 feet. Of course, with the price of $339 US, one would have to wonder about the actual quality of the piece.

[Dammit_Carl!]

Watch the videos of the fat guy slicing up stuff - metal looks to be adequate for the job, I guess.

But, for the sword to enter AR / True Operator territory, it needs picatinny rails.

[Ducimus]

Since the subject came up, some may find this interesting.



Personally, im putting a bayonet lug on my rifle for historical reasons (as an appreciation for the last wood and steel battle rifle), and because i have the utmost respect for certain politicians who label things as "evil features", some of which were never used in any crime I have ever heard of - ever.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Dammit_Carl!

Watch the videos of the fat guy slicing up stuff - metal looks to be adequate for the job, I guess.

But, for the sword to enter AR / True Operator territory, it needs picatinny rails.

It isn't usually the blade, but the hilt that will fail. While the blade looks nice, the close-ups of the hilt and guard show it to be rather cheaply made.

Compare it with a similar bastard sword, which retains the simple non-museum design and yet features a higher quality (at about twice the price, too):

http://www.armor.com/sword195.html

[Dammit_Carl!]

Nice.

Piffle on the edged stuff; I want a http://www.museumreplicas.com/p-543-bar-mace.aspx

And for what it is worth, I've seen the AK crowd is starting to get their fashion accessories as well - soon they'll be totin' all sorts of crap on their rifles too!