Glenn Beck plans city

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

A first look at the model for the place:

I would have thought this would have been more accurate:

[Méo]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

about 20 minutes total. Just watch.

Don't have the time to watch it, but I'm sure it's brilliant!

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

A first look at the model for the place:

Good one

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Méo

Don't have the time to watch it, but I'm sure it's brilliant!

Good post. Good post.

[Oberon]

Watching the first video now, I'm not exactly a Glenn Beck fan, I've seen him go off the deep end in a few vids, but so far what I've been seeing isn't that, it's overly ambitious and probably unlikely to succeed, but there are some basic principles that are sound.
Apprenticeships are, at the most basic level, a good idea, however Beck is a tad overconfident of the willingness of some of the youth to put in the work hours to advance up the ladder due to the common perception of a glass ceiling and/or the loss of having a life outside of work because of putting in so many hours that by the time you get to retirement, you're old and lonely with nothing but material gain to show for it...although to be fair, for some people that alone IS something to show for it and worth it. So, different shapes.
Now he's moved on to the idea of self-sufficiency, now I'm fully behind this, a city should be self sufficient in both power and food supplies, it's common sense, and it provides local employment and lowers the cost of living. Well, in theory it does, but it's more likely that without any form of regulation some money maker will push up the bills.
And, oh dear, the cry for 'simpler times', well, to be honest I think that that is something that people of Becks age, and indeed younger and older, all wish for, that in this modern hurley burley world, that life would go back to 'how it was when I was a kid'. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, you take a kid out into the wilderness for a weekend and he/she'll either adapt to it and have fun, or ring child services and accuse you of neglect.
The idea of entering this city/theme park through Ellis Island appeals to the patriotic as well as the tourist, so it's a fairly sound business move, a tad jingoistic, but that's what some people want, and that's fair enough.
Media center...ok, starting to potentially roll into sanctioned media territory.
An Alamo recreation...I wonder if Muslim faiths would be permitted to use that space...
The R&D based around the San Fran expo architecture...that's fair enough, I'd love to see a remake of the Crystal Palace in London, but I don't think it'd be practical. I do ponder the practicality of this too in modern R&D, but it's do-able. Although again, there is the problem of making an 'experience'...an 'experience' based upon whose ideas?
The residential area seems to be a bit far away from the market place, I expect some form of mass transportation would be connected between the two. I like the idea of removing 'class' although this whole city is starting to make me think of something, more on that when I reach the end of these vids.
Oh, I see, the roads will be underground, thus leaving the front of the houses for a green area...not a bad idea, would need to be well ventilated, but it would have a nice effect not to have to look out on traffic all the time. Again though, I ponder about his grip on modern family and children, but it's a noble idea, although there is still a need for privacy in ones backyards.
The idea of a sun collector, not bad, although it does have a Tower of Babel ring to it the way he explains it, however his idea of a manuscript library, whilst good, is open to potential bias. Better still that a copy of everything that has been preserved in the US national archive be placed there for a more balanced overview.
First point, no wind-power...why not? Admittedly it's not a particularly powerful form of electrical power, but I think it could work alongside the 'sun collector' if that is chosen to work as a solar power collector. Beck hasn't mentioned how he's going to generate all the power he wants to be self sustainable and export with yet though.
Oh dear, did I just hear 'deprogramming'?
He does make a point about 'schools being a thing of the past as we've designed them', certainly with upcoming technology the whole school system is potentially due for an overhaul, however it has to be done carefully to preserve the mixture of learning and social experience that is given.
Theme park and theatre is a nice idea, and will provide potential revenue. Also, the idea of telling both sides of the story in the 'Cowboys and Indians' is good, and will help expand peoples understanding. Although I fear for a more Disney version of Native American beliefs than reality, but the idea of finding truth from both sides, amidst the lies, sounds reasonable...

And so we reach the end...well, on the surface it seems like a nice, if somewhat optimistic plan at bringing together people, although I have to smile at the fact that Glenn Beck, who is often portrayed as right-wing, has put forward a city that is a socialists nirvana (Kim Jong-il and Stalin would love the idea of deprogramming people), however I expect that the teachings of the city and the libraries within would be...somewhat influenced by personal beliefs.
Beck also fails to mention what is going to power this city, to make it energy sufficient and be able to export energy and food, this and the whole misty eyed expression of 'getting back to the basics of what makes America great' leads me to suspect that Beck has laid out a more ideological plan than a technological one. However, he pays people a lot of money to do that within his framework, so I dare say that some boffin will do something to cater to the design plan. Most likely nuclear based, since I doubt that a oil facility would fit in with the design ethos, the last thing you want to see at a theme park is a cloud of thick smoke. Admittedly you'd have the same problem with an NPP as most of them require releasing steam, but you could probably condense it down and perhaps release it outside the city, although the safety regulations in doing that....well....like I said, Beck pays people money to think of things like that, and I'm not one of them.
There's one thing that I do have a little weakness for, and it's architectural designs, I couldn't do one to save my life, but I do enjoy looking at designs of modern cities, such as the South Korean one that has a rather unfortunate shape, or modern architectural and scientific solutions to upcoming problems such as, and I do bang on about them a lot, vertical farms. It reminds me that we are living in exciting times, providing we don't screw it all up.
However, where Becks dreams will fail, is at roughly the same point most big dreams fail...money, cold hard cash, and despite the popularity of the Beck media empire, I doubt his ability to make his dreams become reality.

However, if Beck and his designers can take one thing away from this, one bit of good news...even at its worst, it's still a better design than Milton Keynes.

[disclaimer - Many people will say 'Why the hell did you take that video seriously', and indeed I am one of them, however from time to time I do like to examine things closely rather than roll with popular sentiment, and as I have already mentioned, I do have a weakness for city design and architecture...call it the part of me that play Simcity 2000 far too much. ]

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

..designed by that poor misguided architect Albert Speer who rose to be no. 3 in the Nazi Regime, but apparently never knew about or had anything to do with the Holocaust or the Slave Labour program...but I digress..

Have you read his books? It's a bit more complex than that.

So its sorta inspired by Disney.
I would have thought Beck would be more of a Warner Bros.
After all he is doing the Loony Tunes market

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Now he's moved on to the idea of self-sufficiency, now I'm fully behind this, a city should be self sufficient in both power and food supplies, it's common sense, and it provides local employment and lowers the cost of living. Well, in theory it does, but it's more likely that without any form of regulation some money maker will push up the bills.]

Except that it has never worked that way. People became prosperous and cities became wealthy when they started trading with each other. London, Tokyo, Moscow, New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Mexico City, Los Angeles, Buenos Aires, Paris, Madrid, Venice and every other city on Earth became prosperous through trade with other settlements. It is the reason that people moved to those places. Beck's fantasy of prosperity through internal trade is just that, a fantasy.

The residential area seems to be a bit far away from the market place, I expect some form of mass transportation would be connected between the two. I like the idea of removing 'class' although this whole city is starting to make me think of something, more on that when I reach the end of these vids.
Oh, I see, the roads will be underground, thus leaving the front of the houses for a green area...not a bad idea, would need to be well ventilated, but it would have a nice effect not to have to look out on traffic all the time. Again though, I ponder about his grip on modern family and children, but it's a noble idea, although there is still a need for privacy in ones backyards.

There are two business districts. The one near the entrance is the showy one for his apprenticeship scheme. There is also one near the residential district for the, well, residents. The showy one is more akin to Main Street USA in the Disney Parks. And if you have ever been to a Disney park, the first thing you notice is that those shops are corporate, and sell liscenced products. I would expect the same, as the market's position clearly dictates that the district is intended to be a revenue generator, and a generator through tourism, otherwise the settlement's economy is stagnant. I imagine that those shops will have to end up selling Beck merchandise, as I can't see people flying 3000 miles and paying to have their 10-year-old son apprentice to a guy making wagon wheels.

The resident market is a silly idea too. So Joe Sixpack works on the city ranch raising cattle. On payday he goes to the resident supermarket to buy beef for his family. The supermarket then pays the ranch for the beef, who in turn pays Joe his wage so that he can buy more beef. Pointless work for pointless pay is what made the Soviet Union fall apart. And that concept is anything but free market.

In regard to transportation, as far as I understood him, there are no automobiles permitted within the city, period. Aside from the incredibly creepy notion of 'no way out' that this gives, it does make it clear that Becksburg will need a large mass transit system. And, of course, the city will have to pay for the construction and upkeep, which means that taxes will have to be collected. Uh oh.

[mookiemookie]

Originally Posted by TLAM Strike

I would have thought this would have been more accurate:

aaaahahhaaha that's another good one. He could have a big ED 209 with Reagan's voice.

[Dammit_Carl!]

Funny how this sort of concept seems to be big now with 2-3 more people/groups nowadays:

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/comme...northern-idaho (The Citadel Project)

http://www.freedomship.com/ (The Freedom Ship project) - I think this has been out there for a while, if I recall correctly.

and these are 2 just off the top of my head.

So many want to "go Galt," it seems, yet they never get there.

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/comme...northern-idaho (The Citadel Project)

So this gun nut heaven project is by a crook who is not allowed to legally hold firearms

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

Except that it has never worked that way. People became prosperous and cities became wealthy when they started trading with each other. London, Tokyo, Moscow, New York City, Boston, Philadelphia, Mexico City, Los Angeles, Buenos Aires, Paris, Madrid, Venice and every other city on Earth became prosperous through trade with other settlements. It is the reason that people moved to those places. Beck's fantasy of prosperity through internal trade is just that, a fantasy..

This is true, although in terms of trade I was thinking luxury items and machinery rather than the essential basics, food, water and heat. Certainly though there's room for the trade of food, if one city is focused on growing, say wheat and beef, and another city has sweetcorn and chickens, then trade between the two to increase the palette of the citizens diet would be a good thing. What I don't like is the whole idea of cities and indeed countries, relying on another nation in order to be able to eat, which is a situation that has developed in many western nations, particularly Britain. There's not even a stockpile system in force to protect against potential trade disruption, which admittedly is not very likely now that the Iron Curtain has fallen, but even so, in my mind at least, it's common sense to be able to have enough food in your nation or city to be able to feed your own people, and then trade the surplus, after storing some for emergencies that is. Of course with the large global population this means a lot of farms, but there are ways around that.

There are two business districts. The one near the entrance is the showy one for his apprenticeship scheme. There is also one near the residential district for the, well, residents. The showy one is more akin to Main Street USA in the Disney Parks. And if you have ever been to a Disney park, the first thing you notice is that those shops are corporate, and sell liscenced products. I would expect the same, as the market's position clearly dictates that the district is intended to be a revenue generator, and a generator through tourism, otherwise the settlement's economy is stagnant. I imagine that those shops will have to end up selling Beck merchandise, as I can't see people flying 3000 miles and paying to have their 10-year-old son apprentice to a guy making wagon wheels.

Alas I haven't been to any of the Disney parks but I have read about them and yes, there is a lot of corporation within it, which makes business sense in terms of big business, but goes against the whole 'little man' idea that Beck is putting forward, but this is hardly the first time that there have been a gulf between Becks dreams and reality.
There might be some novelty in learning 'ye olde crafts' but honestly I agree that it wouldn't carry its own weight unless the apprenticeship schemes were for employment that will actually be achievable in the outside world...which will be going in a completely different direction to 'Independence'.

The resident market is a silly idea too. So Joe Sixpack works on the city ranch raising cattle. On payday he goes to the resident supermarket to buy beef for his family. The supermarket then pays the ranch for the beef, who in turn pays Joe his wage so that he can buy more beef. Pointless work for pointless pay is what made the Soviet Union fall apart. And that concept is anything but free market.

That is the thing that has boggled me whilst watching this video, Glen Beck is supposedly one of the members of the American right, often described as far right, and vast elements of this city would be right at home in the 1970s Soviet Union, from the above example, through 'deprogramming' and right into removing class, and yet I expect that if you were to accuse Mr Beck of being a Communist he would probably explode. Strange world.

In regard to transportation, as far as I understood him, there are no automobiles permitted within the city, period. Aside from the incredibly creepy notion of 'no way out' that this gives, it does make it clear that Becksburg will need a large mass transit system. And, of course, the city will have to pay for the construction and upkeep, which means that taxes will have to be collected. Uh oh.

It reminds me somewhat of the Artilleryman from The War of the Worlds, this grandiose scheme to build a new America based on the values of 'the good old days', but who chooses who stays and who leaves? Who chooses what is taught, what is kept in the libraries?

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by Oberon

This is true, although in terms of trade I was thinking luxury items and machinery rather than the essential basics, food, water and heat. Certainly though there's room for the trade of food, if one city is focused on growing, say wheat and beef, and another city has sweetcorn and chickens, then trade between the two to increase the palette of the citizens diet would be a good thing. What I don't like is the whole idea of cities and indeed countries, relying on another nation in order to be able to eat, which is a situation that has developed in many western nations, particularly Britain. There's not even a stockpile system in force to protect against potential trade disruption, which admittedly is not very likely now that the Iron Curtain has fallen, but even so, in my mind at least, it's common sense to be able to have enough food in your nation or city to be able to feed your own people, and then trade the surplus, after storing some for emergencies that is. Of course with the large global population this means a lot of farms, but there are ways around that.

Even with luxury items it doesn't work. The wealth of Venice was in luxury items imported from the east. While those items were sold within the city, the lion's share of them were again exported to cities around Europe. If Beck plans on doing this sort of thing, kind of like a Randian sweatshop, it kind of defeats the purpose of this gated commuinity as a retreat from the world.

That is the thing that has boggled me whilst watching this video, Glen Beck is supposedly one of the members of the American right, often described as far right, and vast elements of this city would be right at home in the 1970s Soviet Union, from the above example, through 'deprogramming' and right into removing class, and yet I expect that if you were to accuse Mr Beck of being a Communist he would probably explode. Strange world.

You are right, but I think that it doesn't really matter at this point. This isn't about free markets and political ideology anymore. Beck has, over the past decade or so, used his political message to amass a sizable group of very devoted followers. And he became progressively more conspiratorial and paranoid. It's what caused Fox to part ways with him; they could see where this was going and it was going to be a bad thing. And now, like many cult leaders before him, Beck is planning their exodus, where the he and his followers will create their own utopia. And of course, that utopia is not about vision and ideology, but rather the leader of the cult. The whole thing is set up like a giant pyramid scheme, where everything is always flowing up the ladder to Beck himself.

It reminds me somewhat of the Artilleryman from The War of the Worlds, this grandiose scheme to build a new America based on the values of 'the good old days', but who chooses who stays and who leaves? Who chooses what is taught, what is kept in the libraries?

Exactly. Schools will be dismantled in Becksburg and children will be taught proper Beckian values. He will even be generous enough to allow political leaders to visit for some good old fashioned indoctrination.

[Dammit_Carl!]

...and later, when Beckopolis retreats underground to avoid the ravages of WW3, the population will flourish and grow and all will be left to do as they wish...but at a catch; their life ends at 30.

Wonder if Beck will adopt a title like "Dear Leader," or somesuch too.

[August]

Originally Posted by Dammit_Carl!

...and later, when Beckopolis retreats underground to avoid the ravages of WW3, the population will be flourish and grow and all will be left to do as they wish...but at a catch; their life ends at 30.

[Dammit_Carl!]

THERE IS NO SANCTUARY!