"Truthers", 9/11 and Operation Northwoods

[Karle94]

Also, the narrator got it all wrong. The RQ-4 Global Hawk is a UAV, not a drone. A drone is a very simple unmanned vehicle that can only do the simplest of manouvers. A UAV is either controlled from the ground or is completely self steered. A UAV is capable of doing anything that a plane can, and can in some cases do more since the only limitation on the plane is removed, the pilot.

I have to agree with you guys about these conspiracy theories. Ofcourse the government is hiding something, what government doesn`t? Why would the Bush administration kill 3000 civilans just to boost the ratings? That`s insanity.

One plane can easily slip through when the plane is no longer transmitting any information from the transponder. All it is, is a small blip among hundreds, if not thousands of blips. Even if they had intercepted them, they would`t shoot them down. Oh, and jet fuel can get hot enough to melt metal. Even if it can`t, how come planes are always completely destroyed when they burn long enough?

[August]

The fatal flaw of all 9-11 conspiracies is that they fail to account for the massive coverups necessary to pull them off. We're talking about a conspiracy involving thousands upon thousands of people. We can't keep an illicit oval office BJ a secret but we can successfully pull off the biggest criminal conspiracy in human history? Not likely.

[Sailor Steve]

And they never quite explain how people planted tons of explosives on every floor of these buildings without anyone noticing. Yes, they have tried, and no, their "explanations" don't cover the time and work involved.

[Ducimus]

It must be true. I saw it on the internet.

[Karle94]

Originally Posted by Sailor Steve

And they never quite explain how people planted tons of explosives on every floor of these buildings without anyone noticing. Yes, they have tried, and no, their "explanations" don't cover the time and work involved.

He said it in the video. It takes at least two week to just plan it. And from two weeks to two months to execute. A lot of work over a large time span to go unnoticed. Too long.

[Stealhead]

Still the Twin Towers where occupied 24/7 so people would have noticed the all the noise made when they place explosives for a demo.Anyone that believes that part of the theory just is not using common sense to think that not one person would say why are these guys drilling holes .

I think also it would take much more than just two weeks two months sounds more believable and that would be at a demo job where they worked all day and where not trying hide anything.

How is a demo job done?
http://science.howstuffworks.com/eng...implosion1.htm

Notice what the supports look like? they removed all of the concrete around them to make them even weaker that would make a ton of noise and nobody in two buildings that where occupied 24/7 noticed all that noise?Right.................

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by Karle94

He said it in the video. It takes at least two week to just plan it. And from two weeks to two months to execute. A lot of work over a large time span to go unnoticed. Too long.

As I said, they never explain how no one noticed all that going on.

[edit] Ah, Stealhead beat me to it.

[Hawk66]

For me it is really amazing with what conspiracy nonsense people on the net fill their spare time...9/11 is just one example; the other is the moon landing.

Their are a lot of well-researched books and papers available, which explain the root cause of this tragedy, mainly the ineffective cooperation between the government agencies.

Like you needed telling.

I was being generous and only laughing at the sillyness of the "truther" theories.
If I was being less generous I would go to the source for some nice comments by the author of that video he linked to like....

The sheeple cannot cope with the truth about 9/11, but most people who can face reality are now learning that Israel - along with Jews around the world - are responsible for the 9/11 attack and numerous other horrible crimes, and that the Jews are using the "Wolf in Sheep's Clothing" trick to manipulate and deceive us. As a result, this minority of higher-quality people are moving to such issues as:

....and say .....Catfish you really are something special to be linking to idiots like that and asking to be taken seriously, you would be lucky if people only laughed at that bigoted rubbish you are pushing

[Egan]

Ah yes, the Jews. Always the Jews, isn't it? Considering how few of them there are, they must all be very busy, what with all the world domination and international finance and media and stuff. Personally, I think it's nice to see some motivated self starters making something of themselves.

I'm with Tribesman on this. I have become increasingly impressed with the way so many conspiracy theories these days eventually boil down to 'Teh Jews Did it." So much of the troofer movement just seems to be good old anti-semitism in a modern guise. Unfortunately, it's beginning to feel like I can say that about a number of things these days.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by August

The fatal flaw of all 9-11 conspiracies is that they fail to account for the massive coverups necessary to pull them off. We're talking about a conspiracy involving thousands upon thousands of people. We can't keep an illicit oval office BJ a secret but we can successfully pull off the biggest criminal conspiracy in human history? Not likely.

Agree with that, Governments are notoriosly bad a keeping secrets, and if 9/11 were a conspiricy, it would have involved an awful lot of people, thats said what so called 'whistle blowers' that have surfaced have either been ignored or ridiculed at nuts.

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

The claims of the 9/11 truthers have been debunked over and over, years ago.

The problem being, that the debunking is supported by the same type of speculation and straw man arguments that support the very conspiricy theories they intend to debunk. There is no conclusive or solid evidence to support either.
The fact that the full ins and outs of what happened on 9/11 is not supported by by any real substance or scientific fact is why the whole thing is left wind open to speculation, that is the bottom line.
People are left to 'choose' what to believe.

I guess my real question is why was the official investigation so poor? ground zero was crime scene and it was destroyed before any proper investigation or forensics could be carried out, that is what troubles me the most.

The other problem is this attitude that any one who questions 9/11 automatically deserves to be laughed at, insulted or ridiculled, some times the response is 'HOW DARE YOU'. that kind of attitude is dangerous, history has proven that the majority who hold poplular opinion can indeed be easily misled.
Also, questioning 9/11 is no more disrepectful to the the victims, than questioning the sinking of the titantic is disrespctful to the victims of that, people should really stop playing that song.

On the flip side, some 9/11 truthers do set themselves up for this kind of response but posting some ridiculous videos on youtube, with claims of orbs or holograms and god knows what else. ususually showing freeze framed zoomed in footage of the same grainy videos we have all seen a thousand times - while claiming is proof of <insert conspricy>
Some are way too obsessive, constantly looking for things which arent there....now that is rather sad and desperate.

So yeah Im still on the fence for this one.

[Catfish]

Where did some of you get the "jewish conspiracy" from ?

On the fence, right - i don' really believe either side.

I did not say i believe it "just so", without lots of doubt left - there are.
But most of you evade the questions and facts posted in the vid. It is of no importance for me whether it was a UAV or a missile, as long it obviously cannot have been a jet airplane. From parts found to such jet parts missing, to the plane then having made a 270 degrees manoeuver to hit that reinforced and empty part of the pentagon.
Or the WTC's concrete being pulverized below the actual impact, as the explosives specialists from all over the world explain (also not all in this vid). From the explosions happening far below the impact, the outblowing concrete cannot have been pulverized by a fire - and this happens before the top crumbles.
B.t.w there has been an assassination try before that, where explosives were hidden in the WTC some time before 9/11. There are also videos of tons of material being brought into the building, if not in this video.

Let's end it here, i am not convinced - by either side.

Where did some of you get the "jewish conspiracy" from ?

From the person who made the video you linked to on the "truther" website he is promoting in his video.
Its very easy, you can either look at his name or you can look at the web address, both are in the opening titles of that stupid crap you posted and asked people to look at.
I am terribly sorry, I didn't realise that when you were asking people to look you didn't want them to look or that you hadn't looked yourself.

Am I feeling free to laugh again?

[Platapus]

Originally Posted by Hawk66

For me it is really amazing with what conspiracy nonsense people on the net fill their spare time...9/11 is just one example; the other is the moon landing.

Well 911 is real, but the moon landing was clearly faked



Sheeesh, This is easy to settle. Why don't we just ask one of the crew members of this "so called moon landing"?



Uh on second thought, let's not ask him.

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by Skybird

I don'T know whether these conspiration claims are right or wrong. I don't think they are, but I cannot rule out that they maybe hold some truth nevertheless.

But what I always have said is this: Bush was openly ridiculed by his own people, his respectability was at a complete low, already his inauguration started with a demonstration of how low respect for him was, hjust remember how his car helplessly waited for around a quarter of an hour in the rain when they realised the demonstrations ahead and did not know whether to proceed or not.

9/11 was the best thing that has happened to him in his whole presidency. It saved him and tremendously helped in reelection (which was, that is fair to say, at least in massive doubt), it minimised resistence to Wolfowitz 10+ years old plan to attack Iraq although the strike was prepared and launched from Saudi Arabians staged in Afghanistan, allowed long-wanted limitations of freedom and civil liberties, and enabled Bush to act strong on the only "quality" that he really had: to act pathetically, to make pathetic adresses, and by playing strong the pathos chord pull sympathy of the wide public back on his side.

9/11 was the best thing that could have happened to the Bush adminsitration at that time.

So yes, they would have had a motive, a terribly strong motive. Which is no evidence, to make that also clear, that they did it. They benefitted from the crime - only this is certain.

I think you hit the nail just about on the head. 911 wasn't an inside job, but it was an opportunity for the bush administration (one that had obviously just botched the whole role of national security and allowed it to happen) to cash in on the tragic deaths of Americans on that day. They used it as a PR fiesta. The wold was sympathetic to our plight, american people were united...and what did they do? Get us into 2 pointless wars for no really good reason.

Yep, they pretty much cashed in and tried to ride that gravy train to 2008. and they really almost did